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Gerzel
post Jun 28 2011, 06:25 PM
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Hypothetically what would be required for a character in SR4 to be puppeteered by an implant?

Say...

How much can Skillwires override a person's will? What kind of roles might a character have to make if say somehow skillwires were to be hacked?

Simrig + Skillwires + Datafilter seems to be coming close to the basics. Would just need an implanted commlink or nexus to provide the control interface wouldn't you?
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Rubic
post Jun 28 2011, 06:33 PM
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AFAIK, you only really need personasoft or memory hacking, though you could turn them into a biodrone with the proper implant.
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Modular Man
post Jun 28 2011, 07:02 PM
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Did your read about "Charlie Wire" in "Vice"? If not, I definitely suggest that. Short: Some criminal genius who's infamous for puppeteering random people.
He seems to use a combination of skillwires, internal commlinks, cybereyes and various hallucinogenics.
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Yerameyahu
post Jun 28 2011, 07:11 PM
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RAW, you can't do it at all.

A human Stirrup Interface (or other biodrone things), if allowed, would probably allow puppeteering.

GM-approval could allow skillwires to do some things approaching this, but it's more like 'you try to shoot X and shoot Y instead'.

Cyberlimb hacking could also be allowed (GM approval) to do crude things, though arguably *not* anything complex like shooting other people.

Personafix really is masking/replacing the resident personality, so that would work in some ways.

Certain kinds of AR software could function (in a manner similar to the Orientation Goad/biodrone stuff) to let you 'trick' the subject into doing what you want. This is the basic 'friends look like steaks when you're hungry' trick.
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Ascalaphus
post Jun 28 2011, 11:33 PM
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There aren't any clear rules on how to do this, but on the other hand, Bunraku are a long-established part of the setting. So I suggest looking to see how that is done; I think it's a BTL/Skillwire combo.
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Christian Lafay
post Jun 28 2011, 11:36 PM
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Seems like fluff from Neuromancer that went....... Yup.
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Yerameyahu
post Jun 28 2011, 11:57 PM
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It's just straight Personafix, p259.
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Ascalaphus
post Jun 29 2011, 08:10 AM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jun 29 2011, 12:57 AM) *
It's just straight Personafix, p259.


It's too bad those never get actual rules...
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ShadowPavement
post Jun 29 2011, 11:29 AM
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If the target to to pupetted had the right cyber I'd probably make it a rigging test on the part of the controller. Probably the Pilot Anthromorph skill, with the Willpower of the puppet being a penalty to the test.
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hobgoblin
post Jun 29 2011, 11:37 AM
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QUOTE (Christian Lafay @ Jun 29 2011, 01:36 AM) *
Seems like fluff from Neuromancer that went....... Yup.

I think that was part personafix, part memory blocker (either in SR4 or Augmentation).
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Yerameyahu
post Jun 29 2011, 01:38 PM
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Datafilter, yeah. Personafix does the work, datafilter just ensures they don't remember. No rigging, though, or even direct control.
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The Jopp
post Jun 29 2011, 01:40 PM
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it's easy

Restricted Gear - Stirrup Interface

Sim Module
Stirrup Interface
Cyberears
Cybereyes
Commlink

Activate Sim module and put your subject in a dreamstate and remote control your puppet.

All gear van also be bought second hand (-20% cost). Used ware is +1 availability so the stirrup rating 1 goes up to availability 16 - still below 20.
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Ascalaphus
post Jun 29 2011, 01:43 PM
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Except the Stirrup Interface only works on animals.
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Yerameyahu
post Jun 29 2011, 02:01 PM
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It's like people don't read the thread. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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hobgoblin
post Jun 29 2011, 02:13 PM
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QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Jun 29 2011, 03:43 PM) *
Except the Stirrup Interface only works on animals.

Officially yes. You can be damn sure that all the corps that have any interest in cybernetics and/or biodrones have prototyped it for metahuman use. Hell, it would be the perfect prisoner punishment...
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Jun 29 2011, 02:17 PM
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QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Jun 29 2011, 07:13 AM) *
Officially yes. You can be damn sure that all the corps that have any interest in cybernetics and/or biodrones have prototyped it for metahuman use. Hell, it would be the perfect prisoner punishment...


Maybe, but Personafixing a prisoner is just so much cheaper... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Ascalaphus
post Jun 29 2011, 02:45 PM
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QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Jun 29 2011, 03:13 PM) *
Officially yes. You can be damn sure that all the corps that have any interest in cybernetics and/or biodrones have prototyped it for metahuman use. Hell, it would be the perfect prisoner punishment...


Sure, black project prototypes, but nothing in the "catalog" of RAW-functional stuff yet.

Rigging people is supposed to be on the "just over the horizon" edge of SOTA - we're getting close, but it's not there yet.



The Personafix route is really quite different; you're manipulating who someone thinks they are, what they see and want. But they are in charge of their bodies, just not so much in charge of their minds. It's definitely not rigging-style control; you need to manipulate their feelings and perceptions to guide them.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Jun 29 2011, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Jun 29 2011, 07:45 AM) *
The Personafix route is really quite different; you're manipulating who someone thinks they are, what they see and want. But they are in charge of their bodies, just not so much in charge of their minds. It's definitely not rigging-style control; you need to manipulate their feelings and perceptions to guide them.


True, but making them into someone who [thinks he] is a productive member of society would not be all that hard to do.
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Ascalaphus
post Jun 29 2011, 03:19 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jun 29 2011, 03:53 PM) *
True, but making them into someone who [thinks he] is a productive member of society would not be all that hard to do.


It has its uses, but it's very different from rigging someone. It's more like high-speed psychology.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Jun 29 2011, 03:33 PM
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QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Jun 29 2011, 08:19 AM) *
It has its uses, but it's very different from rigging someone. It's more like high-speed psychology.


No arguments there... Has a lot of potential for making a Great Manchurian Candidate...
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hobgoblin
post Jun 29 2011, 04:00 PM
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that would be more in the realm of a psychotropic IC. Tho mostly because you want the effect to be there even when the BTL is not plugged in.
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Ascalaphus
post Jun 29 2011, 05:06 PM
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QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Jun 29 2011, 05:00 PM) *
that would be more in the realm of a psychotropic IC. Tho mostly because you want the effect to be there even when the BTL is not plugged in.


Depending on your particular style of perversity, of course (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It's a shame they didn't explore rules for BTLs and Personafixes the way they did with drugs.. would have been easy to use those same style mechanics.

For example, a Personafix with high self-confidence, that you can slot if you have a job interview that you don't want to screw up by being nervous. Or if you need to stare down the Yakuza boss without flinching.
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CanRay
post Jun 29 2011, 05:31 PM
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The Former Bunraku Joytoy looks like a more viable background all the time... If there were rules.
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Gerzel
post Jun 29 2011, 05:45 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jun 29 2011, 09:17 AM) *
Maybe, but Personafixing a prisoner is just so much cheaper... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


For now...
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CanRay
post Jun 29 2011, 05:49 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jun 29 2011, 09:17 AM) *
Maybe, but Personafixing a prisoner is just so much cheaper... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Haven't seen "A Clockwork Orange", have you? It's cheaper, but does it actually work?
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