Get an updated PDF mate.

Against a basic low level mook you might be taking one down per burst, if you're gunbunny with 20 dice. Against anything more powerful, with better defenses going into full-dodge, you can't expect that reliably. This comparison has honestly been done to death.

In our last big fight, three people shooting at an intermediate mook quite similar to what I posted above took him down in 1IP, but the mage knocked out the Stirruped infected zombie (18 dice to full dodge(ranged), 27 soak ballistic, 21 impact, 14 boxes P, 11 boxes S) in one IP with zero chance of failure. The second advanced bad guy was likewise totally untouched by gunfire (with stuff like 6-8P getting through his dodge, which he easily soaked) and went down to one stunbolt. Granted, they had no mage. The only elite enemy taken down by gunfire was by a very lucky narrow-burst with edge, and a bad def roll, even with edge. Even so, from 22P before Def, only 12 got through, bringing him to just 1 overdamage.

My point: A semi-competent mage can take out one enemy per IP. A semi-competent shooter with 15-18 dice can't. You need lots of dice over and above those the defender has, OR wide-burst automatic weapons by default, with the risk of not getting through armour. YES I know everyone should be shooting only S&S. But in the world where that happens everyone and their mother will be getting electrical resistance. Semi-auto weapons have totally lost this comparison, long ago.

The absolutely only advantage shooting has is stealing actions without using any special BFC methods.

Called shots do worlds of good. Heck, my pistol-wielding troll consistently does decent damage to the opposition.

The problem I'm seeing is that he's spending Edge to go first. That's not usually a big deal, but mages have their points stretched thin. Having an high Edge mage based on overcasting is really pushing the build. If he's going first constantly by spending from a high Edge, spending Edge to boost his spells (and resisting drain, if he's smart) and has the points to routinely overcast, something is probably up.

Slightly off topic, but is this really possible? You can have a nanohive in your cybereyes? My new mage is really curious (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

No. Cybereyes only take visual upgrades.

Try again chummer, but legally this time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Yep, that pretty well describes the mage.

Look at that character sheet, especially if this was the same guy with a drinking problem.

yeah

Yeah, I'd double-check that character sheet. The best I've been able to manage is a human mage with Edge 6, using the old karmagen rules. And even then, that was pushing things. If he's managed a high Edge and a high Magic, he's got to have taken a hit somewhere else.

Here's a thought: it's not at all clear to me that drain damage is healable by First Aid, or by anything other than rest. IIRC, physical drain manifests as things like burst blood vessels, embolisms, heart arrhythmia, etc. Not really the kinds of injuries you can slap a bandage on. If the mage has a Savior medkit (the nanotech medkit from Augmentation) I'd allow him to First Aid drain away, subject to all the normal rules, modifiers, and limitations. But with a standard medkit? No chance.

That seems silly, if I wanted a datajack or biomonitor or some other "could be anywhere physically" component, in my cybereye it should be fine. Also does it actually say that anywhere? In any case it doesn't matter, if you don't allow the cybereyes get a cyberhand and put the nano-hive in there, still reduces the essence cost by an order of magnitude.

It seems more silly putting the nano-hive loaded with nanites for your brain in a hand or lower arm than in 'ware actually in your skull.

Well, how often does the Edge refresh in this game?
IF - say every session - and there arent that much fights, then he doesnt need that much Edge...

The problem is that the Capacity scales are not the same for eyes/ears and limbs. A large smuggling compartment takes 5 Capacity and can contain a heavy pistol. If you allow cyberlimb enhancements in cybereyes, you can stuff 4 Predator in your eyes. 2 in each.

I would also point out how long it actually takes to heal wounds with first aid. (Page 242 SR4, Complex action + number of combat turns = to the DV you are attempting to heal.) Are you really giving your mage enough time to sit around for several minutes patching himself up when he's on a run? I'm also going to have to second everyone about the visability modifiers as well. Radar/ultrasonic works wonders for mundanes, but its really not that great for a mage since they cant target with it. Get some smoke grenades, darkness, or even a spirit with concealment to reduce his ability to target enemies.

Already considered in the calculation.

Well obviously pistols aren't the type of "can go anywhere" thing I meant, I'm just having trouble seeing someone vetoing a nano-hive in cybereyes, stuff like recommending to a hacker to get a 0.45 essence 12 capacity leg and to put commlink, sim module and whatever else in there always truck me as far more egregious and yet a perfectly acceptable application of a similar principle (headware in a cyberlimb rather than completely undefined location 'ware in eyes). I understand that the idea is that your cyberlimbs have a DNI and so a commlink in them works just fine, but if where's the "sorry chummer, you can't put headware in a cyberlimb" reply?



It's still only a matter of seconds, not minutes, though. Pretty feasible to get that after a firefight.

Just an aside, I just realized that there are Profession (First Aid) autosofts out there. Which technically means a drone with the proper equipment can be chucking 16+ dice... in First Aid.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

It's ROBOMEDIC!





-k

You missed the point. The pistol was not the enhancement. The smuggling compartment was, and you cannot find more "can go anywhere" than a hole. It is just a convenient example because it gives an idea of the size of a Capacity point in a limb. To say the same thing differently:

Capacity of a pair of cybereyes: up to 16
Capacity of an obvious full arm: 15

The problem is not "can I put a nanohive in my eyes?". It is "can I put more nanohives in my eyes than in an obvious full arm?"

Put him up against a mage eater. I can give you the stats.

Even with that taken into consideration, he's blowing through Edge left and right from the sound of things. He goes first, Edges a spellcasting roll, and Edges the drain if need be. That's 3 edge in one IP, pretty quick if you don't have much.

A Fomori with Ogre stomach? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

I am not a fan of overcasting as the norm. To my mind the RAI was for cinematic do-or-die situations like the climactic fight where the mage is going to die in a hail of lead unless he/she takes all the mooks down. The way I try to limit it is as follows:

1) I house rule that first aid won't work on overcasting P drain. My rationale is the overuse of mana causes interrnal hemmoraging that requires a full on clinic to treat. If you don't want to go this far, as has been mentioned above use neg mods to the first aid test as much as possible. Oh, and overcasting wounds are NOT combat wounds (gunshot, knife wounds etc) for skill specialization.

2) With radius of F metres, overcast AoE spells affect a huge area. Corridors and room size might mean the mage and/or other PC's are affected by the spell. Also, with direct combat spells, mooks who duck out of LOS will be unharmed.

3) Erasing the signature of high force spells takes a lot of time. Do it and the team (or at least the mage) are sitting ducks for quite a significant amount of time, don't and the bad guys have your astral signature and can hunt you down.

4) As has been mentioned before, drones!

5) Although I don't use it myself, some people on these boards make rampant overcasters make a CHR and WIL check (threshhold 3) check to avoid casting at the highest possible non-overcasting force. It ain't easy to willingly cause yourself P damage after all.

Hope this helps!

We meet once a month for a session of anywhere from 8-11 hours. We've been refreshing every session. I have been thinking about altering that. I've been told that as a GM, the best response I can give to a player is "yes", then I make it work. They wanted to refresh every session, I wanted to go at milestones in the Ghost Cartel arc.

The thing is, Mage and Face are the two that regularly show up. GA shows up most of the time, and SS and Hacker sporadicly. I don't really know much about those character because I've rarely seen them. RL keeps them/us hoppin'. So I don't know how the SS and Hacker do combat-wise. I know the SS chose to take the pre-made out of the SR4A book. We're all still trying to figure out the rules and mechanics.

Thanks again to you all. Keep the good advice coming.

No need for Ogre stomach.

Formori-Ghul with Astral Hazing