As I look at the table, I realize that there's almost always going to be a Conditions penalty to the First Aid test, even a quiet indoor environment is only Average (-1), and you need a med facility to erase the Conditions modifier completely (SR4A, 253). Being a mage is -2, as people have said, and there's more if he's augmented. If he's applying First Aid to himself, remember any wound modifiers. Remember the hits have to beat the threshold of 2, so the first 2 hits on the First Aid test don't heal anything. With his reduced dice pool, he has to roll at least 3 hits to get any benefit at all.

As others point out, First Aid is not something you really want to do during combat, so he's going to be suffering from those drain boxes for the rest of the combat. It's up to the rest of the enemies to expand on that. One Combat Turn per box of healing can feel like an eternity when people have multiple Initiative Passes.

If you want to be really evil and the enemies have some prep time, have an enemy hacker hack the mage's medkit. If the mage has no First Aid skill, he might not notice it until the medkit starts making his wounds worse. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) If the medkit isn't subscribed to a PAN containing some real matrix defense, or otherwise locked down, its device rating is not an insurmountable obstacle to a hacker.

Sterilize does not equal "sterilized med facility". You still need a med facility. A medkit might do in a pinch if the GM is feeling generous, but there is a "medical facility" listed in Augmentation (p. 124) that is not just a medkit. You might rule that it's too far a jump in requirement for the small jump in modifier, though.

Why would you have your Medkit "Turned On" if you are not using it? I know I would not.
Why would you allow it to even KEEP a signal rating? Again, I wouldn't.
For that Matter, Why would it even NEED a Signal Rating? It is a Medkit, not a Medical Drone.

SO, if you want your NPC hacker to target a Medkit, well, that is all fine and good. Personally, I think that the NPC Hacker could be put to much greater use than that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Personally, I dislike NPCs doing what PCs couldn't do as much as I dislike PCs trying to do things they would argue against NPCs doing.

1) In order to hack a medkit, the hacker has to be within mutual signal range. Since device rating is NOT the rating of the device and there is no need for a medkit to have a signal rating greater than zero. The hacker, player or NPC would need to get right next to the bag.
2) Once he has obtained admin access, what, exactly is he doing? Editing? Editing what? The most useful thing I can think for him to do would be to upload a new pilot program or autosoft, depending on how you think a medkit works.
3) And why, again, is he doing this, and why to the mage's character? Does this make any sense at all?

Things should make sense. If the mage is going around killing everything, then he's going to be making the news and quickly because videos of lots of people dying at the hands of a mage sells. So make that part of the campaign. Tell him he's on the news. Decide for yourself what local gangers, law enforcement, and the relatives and loved ones of his victims are going to do. Actions have consequences.

This isn't you vs. him. There's no need for the two of you to play "who can abuse the rules more"? Play the world, learn the rules, look at his character sheet, and make house rules for where you feel the rules are clearly broken or unclear. And don't forget everyone else at the table is there too.

+1

Indeed... and Suoq deserves a Cookie, as well as an additional +1...

SR4A, p. 311:


SR4A, p. 222:


These seem to imply that a medkit of rating X also has Device rating X. Even if it weren't, how secure does the average non-hacker keep his/her medkit? It's almost certainly subscribed to the user's PAN as well...if so, the hacker just has to find the weak entry point into the PAN. Is it ever totally turned off, or do people leave it on like we leave on (in standby mode) most phones, games, iPads, etc.?

I'm not saying this is something I'd ever do as a GM, and you're quite right that other things could be hacked for more decisive effects. But if, as you say, the mage is making enemies of a lot of people's relatives or friends, maybe that's one way for a message to be sent. Just a weird thought I'd had...and a bit of a wakeup as to how I need to secure the medkit on my new Missions character (a First Aid adept).

Why? You are implying that a Medkit is online and active at all times. I would disagree with that. No reason to have it active (or even on, for that matter) unless you are actively using it, and absolutely NO reason to have it hooked up to your PAN.

Yeah, unless we're talking about something like a Valkyrie Module equipped drone like an AutoDoc the chances for causing real mischief hit me as pretty minimal.

In any case, any Shadowrunner worth a damn gets all their equipment without wireless anyway, unless wireless is essential for that device to function.




-k

1) Nonsense. Mutual signal range is an utterly moot point as long as both are within mutual signal range of a device that has Matrix access and is in active or passive mode. You could hack a medkit in Hong Kong from your lawnchair on a Hawaian beach.
2) Deleting the Pilot program would disable the kit completely. Deleting whatever autosoft it runs to do its things would force it to default on its First Aid roll. Editing either would be a Software roll, which takes considerably longer than would be useful. Of course, either being possible would be houseruling, since neither is statted out.


Actually, if you turn it off completely, there's a pretty big downside: you'll have to boot it up again. This takes time. Time that adds on top of the (damage taken) number of turns it takes to apply First Aid.

Only if you allow the medkit permanent wireless connection. There is no reason to do this.

We are not talking about rebooting the medkit, but simply turning off the wireless connection - if necessary from the hardware side i.e. rip out the transmitter.

Indeed... There is absolutely no reason for a Medkit to have a wireless connection whatsoever.

Make his character inspirational to the NPC tough wannabies. Have a few low-level NPC mages start doing the same thing.


I'm pretty sure boot-up times are handwaved; however, your argument is what came to mind for me as well.

I'm confused. How does the guy in Hawaii have the access_ID of the medkit? Did I miss that part?

Why would i need to boot up the kits wireless link when i start to use it, that wireless isn't needed for using it.

Which is the point... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If you specifically power down the medkit after every use, fine. But not everyone does that, especially if they think it's going to be used again soon. Actually, I'm surprised that a "talkative" doctor-expert system can coach anyone through treating a light wound (say, 1-3 boxes) in less than 10 seconds without any additional interface.

And even if you do power it down completely when it's not in use, just the healing time (1 Combat Turn per box of healing) is an eternity in Matrix IPs.

I'd submit that the OP's mage probably left the medkit active during the entire run, since the player thought he could use it "immediately" to remove Drain damage. That could be a hard habit to break...

Leaving the Medical Expert System active is also fine... But, WHY does it need to have a wireless connection active at all? IT IS NOT REQUIRED for the medkit to function. Any sane character will have wireless disabled or removed as a matter of course.

I agree that the Mage in question is attempting to abuse the system and that he should be having a hard time healing his drain damage during a fight. Using First Aid does take a lot of time.

I believe the OP stated the mage didn’t have an actual First Aid skill and is using the First Aid Kit to supply the skill (which is allowed, though stupid). So the mage is rolling a base of 12 dice (6 Logic + 6 Med Kit). So let’s see how this pans out. 12 dice minus 2 for being a mage, minus (at least) 1 for damage modifier, minus 3 for conditions (combat), I’ll assume less than 2 points of implants so no modifier there. That leaves 12-2-1-3=6 dice for the roll. On average that’ll be 2 hits which meets but does not exceed the threshold so no damage healed. Now to make this test the mage has spent a complex action plus a number of turns equal to the amount of damage he wanted to heal (SR4 p.242) so assuming only 3 boxes of damage that’s one complex action and 3 full turns (9 seconds) and did absolutely nothing. 9 seconds in the world of Shadowrun is a very long time. Also the most the kit can heal is 6 boxes of damage at one time. I realize that shouldn’t really be an issue but I just thought I’d point it out as it is RAW.

In older editions of the game every time you used a med kit you had to roll 1d6, if it came up a 1 the kit ran out of supplies and needed to be refilled, you may want to look at adding that in as a house rule.

Now on to the med kit, all med kits come with a wireless connection (SR4 p244). We all know that the wireless of any device can be turned off or at least disabled (that’s logical and recommended). So it would make sense for the mage to have the wireless turned off except during down-time so that the autodoc can be patched and updated. So there is no reason for him to have the med kit turned off completely. I can not find a reference for boot times, though rebooting a device takes an extended System + Response (10, 1 turn) test (SR4 p221). If he is turning off the med kit (not just the wireless) I would house rule that it would require a System + Response (5, 1 turn) test to boot up. The system and response of a rating 6 med kit would be 6 each, so 12 dice. On average it would take 2 turns to boot the med kit. Although as stated turning off the kit is unnecessary.

Just my 2¥

-D

You could have a contact who /does/ have First Aid skill remotely-operate on you through the kit, for which it needs a wireless connection. Also, this might remove the 'combat' penalty from the situation, as the doc is under no stress whatsoever.
That's the only use I can think of though.


I personally would have no compunctions whatsoever about slapping the -3 for combat on top of whatever environment mod there is otherwise. Still, anyone actually using First Aid in combat would be silly to the extreme.

"The your X was hacked"-way is such a cheezy GM move, most of the time.
Medkits, plz give me a breake.

I mean if i really want to annoy your player, there is always magic. (Something the player can't do anything about it and something always reasonable to explain. The serial mind rapist NPC...)

Further: Guys, plz stop thinking in combat turns. Yes, this is much in Combat, because of the reaction enhancers. But out of combat it burn down to quite nothing.
(If I take 20 sec to heal of the drain, while the rest is searching for stuff to steal/the passcode etc. it is not really much.)

@Mardrax

Well, tell this to a field medic.


Some of the rules which I suppose is meant otherwise but only works this way.
(Simple example: If you are in the figherfight it is a bad situation. But a firefight in a steril environment should be still better than a firefight in heavy rain somewhere in the SOX.)

So yes, in combat is fast up to -5 or even -6 if the shit hits the fan. Even out of combat I guess you can easy get -3.

And don't forget vision penalties. It's hard to first aid someone when you can't find the slap pack in the dark.

A field medic generally doesn't have the benefit of knowing the battle will be over in six seconds, because every one of his mates (except for the techy) can make heads explode four times during that time.
In exactly the same way a Shadowrunner doesn't have to deal with firefights that can drag on for hours, wihtout all that many casualties.

Short of being in overflow (or perhaps anaphylatic shock, as caused by some toxic spirirts), there's no valid excuse for taking one (or worse, two) out of a fight. Not in SR4. Not that I have encountered or can think of.

If a medkit is a fully capable doctoring drone, I would be very surprised if it didn't at least have a light to illuminate its contents and the patient. Probably even an LED by every little thing inside, lighting up as the kit tells you to "take this bandage, and apply it to the patient's wound."

I think that I found your problem. A Medkit is NOT a drone, and it is not capable of doctoring anyone. A medkit is a set of tools to assist in first aiding someone (with +1 to +6 bonus dice), nothing more.