One of the funniest things I saw, off topic I admit, was an Indian development for the Bren Machine Gun that made it a belt-fed weapon rather than a magazine-feed. It just looked really, really weird, as the gunner's assistant had to hold the belt up in the air to keep it tight.

And then you get to buy a new hand.

Well, Wedge liked his new shoulder, you'll probably like your new hand better anyhow!

Tis in a weapon mount in a drone or vehicle (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Might mar the paint job a little..

Well, sure, when bolt-action was the thing, they came up with a way to automate the process. So was born the semi-automatic and automatic weapon. If you want 250 rounds of continuous fire, you need to use a weapon designed to fire continuously. It's a lot cheaper and easier than trying to modify a weapon that is a single-shot or small magazine design to handle it. Safer, too.

It might like the new paint job better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

And the rules as written say that you can fit up to a LMG into a weapon mount. So to extend our sillyness your going to put an Ingrim LMG on a Lockheed Optic-X small drone huh?

Which is where common sense comes in. For the Optic -X, you use an SMG with Expanded Clip (50 Rounds), or an MGL-6 Grenade Launcher (Pistol Sized)... More than enough.

For SR3 (R3 136), a weapon not designed specifically as a vehicle weapon requires a conversion kit for use in a vehicle turret or on a fixed mount. I always figgered this took care of the "belt feed" question since a belt feed doesn't necessarily have to have a cloth or metal belt; it can also be a sort of conveyor system like that used on an A-10 that just gets the ammo to where it needs to be.

Was the conversion kit ditched in SR4?

But that is not the rule as written. Common sense says I can make a 250 round large capacity clip and connect it to that SMG or MP.

No. No it doesn't.

Putting 250 bullets in a magazine (I don't care what the game calls it) and having them smoothly fed into an unmodified SMG or MP at an appropriate speed strikes me as a non-trivial engineering problem.

The largest capacity I'm aware of is the 33 round magazines for Glocks (made famous in the shooting of U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords). Building a 250 round magazine is going to require a good chunk of prototyping and testing, and that's assuming the gun can fire off 250 rounds in a row without issues such as overheating, jamming, etc. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN37kkiMMAc )

cursed double posting...

Considering creations like the 100-round drum magazine for the old Thompson M1921, and the new modern Beta C-Mags for STANAG 4179 compatible Assault Rifles (If they work, reliability appears to be debatable I hear.).

Working on a larger magazine wouldn't be that too hard an issue. And you wouldn't need to strengthen the magazine well like you would for the actual mod in Arsenal in order to handle the weight as that would be held by the Drone/Vehicle itself. ... Possibilities.

Seriously I think trying to argue with common sense, against bad RAW or anything like that will just produce more problems.

Personally:

If you start arguing that bad RAW should be ignored, well... there's so MUCH of that.

If you say things don't work as they should - even by accepted RAW, well... you've just opened a can of worms.

And once I'm there then I can basically ignore all the little stupid restrictions in Arsenal, write my own firearm design rules back into the game, etc. Because basically, you actually CAN do anything, it just might get expensive or have problems.

So I can mod any firearms any way I like - I can very easily rework (=exchange) the barrel of the Sporter to allow machinegun usage, make a new receiver, add a loading mechanism, etc. and basically build my own HMG, simply using sport rifle ammo.

Fact of the matter is: SR rules are simply a convention, and as such, I have to house-rule everything that I don't want in that convention. It certainly doesn't make sense for the "magical" ammo bins to add a belt feed, however, it's most certainly not impossible to do so, given a few machining tools, a workshop and maybe a desktop forge. That fact that said mod doesn't exist in the book is, once again, stupid RAW and deserves to be ignored.

Or I can just shut up and read the RAW as RAW and not worry, as long as it doesn't destroy my suspension of disbelief. In SR, guns don't get hot. They don't cook off. They don't get barrel wear (as long as I don't glitch), etc. So I can very well make a machingun out of my sporter- or indeed out of a pistol, even a revolver.

And as long as that works at my table, that's fine. Tymeaus, what you are advocating is selectively reading the RAW to your own liking. What I am advocating is doing just the same thing (except to my liking). You ignore stupid stuff, I ignore stupid stuff (or at least I'd like to), such as all those restrictions on what mods go in what guns. Or that certain guns "can't ever be modded", have inexchangable parts, etc.

Meh, this post is a mess, but so what, I'm replying to a double standard with a double standard.

Actually, the Calico M960 SMG has a cylindrical helical feed magazine of 50 or 100 9mm Parabellum rounds. They used to do a pistol version, M950 IIRC, same basic mechanism, shorter barrel. They do .22 pistols and rifles with similar technology.

Not that its overly relevant, just putting it out there.

M960 with the dual clip mod, 200 rounds right there, can you fit extended mags too? That's 250...

Only in the USA could a firearm have the "Short" magazine hold 50-rounds and still be called a "Pistol". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

EDIT: They're back in business, apparently, BTW.

Apparently, I need to clarify.

I don't have a problem if a GM allows 5000 round "clips". But don't call it "common sense". Call it what it is, a houserule that works for your table.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4ZivnRZG5Q is my new hero. 100 rounds in a glock using a double drum magazine.

Looks like the 9mm(?) version of the Beta C-Mag.

And all of this for a 200 nuyen vehicle modification! Wow!


The Ammo Bin is the one providing the magic ammo-feed technology, not the turret. It only costs 200 nuyen.

If you flip over to the turret rules, it SPECIFICALLY states that only belt-fed weapons get the 250 ammo capacity upgrade.

So, either you have

a) Magic super-adaptable "loads belts into ANYTHING that takes bullets" ammo bins that conflict with the Turret rules,

or

B) the "250 rounds of ammunition, belt feed" line in the Ammo Bin description is meant to say it just adds 250 rounds of belted ammunition, that the Ammo Bin is merely a box to hold the ammo belt, and the description was merely worded badly.



Permissiveness or Restrictiveness has nothing to do with it.

It is not a good idea to assume others game the way you do, so when discussing rules, the base assumption should be that the discussion is about the rules as written, not any custom house rules you might come up with.

If you are heading into "in my game we do things this way" land, the onus is on you to specify as such.



The Arachne I mentioned is as described even smaller than the Optic-X, and it specifically comments that often the weapons that are mounted on it are larger than the drone itself. So I don't see a problem.



-k

So what about favorite mods, beside the inevitable recoil compensation?

I once made a Ruger Super Warhawk with Custom Look 2 - the ultimate scary gun, mostly intended just to threaten people with.

I also like the Cybersafety mob/implant from Augmentation, as an alternative for the rather boring Skinlink. Combine with Trigger Removal and Electronic Firing for a gun that only you can use - and with no trigger, it looks very strange in a Mexican Standoff.

Which Modification are you referring to exactly. Because I can guarantee you , it does not actually exist. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And RAW says I can put a LMG on a small drone.

Weird... I am not selectively reading the RAW on Modifications. I am reading the RAW and applying it as written. You cannot add a 250 round magazine to a pistol. Case Closed. I do not actually ignore the stupid stuff (Emotitoys notwithstanding). Most of it is there for balance (or something). Show me a rule where you can just make any modification willy nilly (other than the right to house-rule at any table) and I will quit commenting on this. Fact is, there is no rule for such equipment in the game, anywhere.

Yes, you can indeed house-rule anything you like, but it is not the Rules from the book. Not arguing your house rule. I am arguing that the modifications being talked about DO NOT EXIST in the game.

I find it funny that you believe that certain things do not exist [b](In SR, guns don't get hot. They don't cook off. They don't get barrel wear (as long as I don't glitch), etc.)[/b], but they do, there is just no RULE for them. If you do not use such things (Fluff, Flavor, or whatever else you may call it), that is not my issue. Guns get hot when you fire rounds through them. Fire too many, and you melt a barrel. Just because there are no rules for them does not mean that it does not happen.

No worries though. To each his own. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

As I said above, see the Arachne.

Yes, it ends up looking like a gun with legs. So?

And you know there's a weapon mod that lets a gun fly around like a bumblebee, right?



-k

"Hello, I'm a Walking Gunbot, and you're a stranger." *BLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAM*