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Sengir
post Aug 12 2011, 04:27 PM
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QUOTE (hermit @ Aug 11 2011, 06:53 PM) *
Firstly, he is an over the top sue. He has an icon that does things an Icon cannot do because he is such a special snowflake, he meets every important person in SR1/2 and is on rather good footing with them (seriously, Lofwyr praised him)

It's a novel, not a campaign log, so of course he pulled off some crazy stunts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
And as the first series novels, it is understandable that the author used it as sort of a "world tour"

QUOTE
and he killed two people: Wyllis HydeWhyte the Toxyc Shyman and some poor guard at Renraku who was just doing his job. Thast guilt weighed heavily on his good christian soul and made him a pacifist (and angst page upon page).

So one has to be a pacifist to refuse killing people in cold blood during a B&E job? Sounds more like generally accepted (IRL) morality to me. Even among the various varieties of intentional homicide, offing someone to facilitate or cover another crime is usually considered to be particularly bad.

QUOTE
Oh yes, and he is the only person (including dragons) to ever single-handedly have fought a Passion and won. Ah, did I mention that while doing this he runs a Great Ghost Dance because he is so fucking special he learns that too?

Yeah, that was over the top...you don't just assemble a couple of guys and do a ghost dance...

QUOTE
Thirdly, his characterisation is hideusly incoherent. So he is a Good Christian WASP as that fascist Charette likes them, and at the same time worships heathen spirits. Oh, AND he doesn't even believe in magic! And while he is a pacifist, he totally does not oppose others do the killing (and maiming, and torture) for him, which goes agaisnt the entire idea of pacifism.

charette novels are good enough action pron for adolescents, but read as an adult, I can't help but wonder whether he wove all this antisemite and white supremacist crap in knowingly or unknowingly.

seriously, is there anything you don't manage to read an anti-anything subtone into? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)



@Fortinbras
QUOTE
None of the other Whites did.
Come to think of it, I can't think of any old school otaku whose icon was identical, or even similar, to themselves. It came with the idea of using the Matrix to escape their terrible, Dickensian lives within their tribes and so created a new reality for themselves.

Matrix explicitly mentions that an Otaku's standard icon is an "idealized version of his physical appearance"...sure, otaku like to show off with extravagant icons just as other deckers do, but there's always people who like to show off by not showing off like the others do (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)



@Prime Mover: The announcement for Conspiracy Theories sounds a bit like that
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Mäx
post Aug 12 2011, 04:48 PM
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QUOTE (Prime Mover @ Aug 12 2011, 07:10 PM) *
Would luv to see a SoTA sourcebook full of cool prototypes experimental tech and magic. Nifty toys to steal for cold cash or personal use.

SoTA pdf book is in the pipeline according to Jason.
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CanRay
post Aug 12 2011, 04:50 PM
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QUOTE (Sengir @ Aug 12 2011, 11:27 AM) *
Matrix explicitly mentions that an Otaku's standard icon is an "idealized version of his physical appearance"...sure, otaku like to show off with extravagant icons just as other deckers do, but there's always people who like to show off by not showing off like the others do (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
The high level of resolution of their avatars was arrogance enough for some Otaku. Especially in those days.
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Neurosis
post Aug 12 2011, 06:24 PM
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I completely agree with everything Sengir had to say in defense of Never Deal With A Dragon.

I love that book. Step off my childhood, dude.

As I recall the sequels are in fact much less good. But I do think the "Bob Charette is a nazi" talk is totally uncalled for.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 12 2011, 06:30 PM
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QUOTE (Neurosis @ Aug 12 2011, 11:24 AM) *
I completely agree with everything Sengir had to say in defense of Never Deal With A Dragon.

I love that book. Step off my childhood, dude.

As I recall the sequels are in fact much less good. But I do think the "Bob Charette is a nazi" talk is totally uncalled for.


Indeed... Why is it that Godwin's Law always has to rear it ugly head, eventually? *Shakes Head*
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CanRay
post Aug 12 2011, 07:01 PM
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It's the Internet. You're surprised?

EDIT: I just realized something... Does Godwin's Law apply to Mel Brooks movies?
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Brazilian_Shinob...
post Aug 12 2011, 07:18 PM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 12 2011, 04:01 PM) *
It's the Internet. You're surprised?

EDIT: I just realized something... Does Godwin's Law apply to Mel Brooks movies?


SPAAAAAAAAAACE JEWS!
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Stahlseele
post Aug 12 2011, 07:34 PM
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And he STILL owes us another SpaceBalls . .
He said:"If lucas does three more, i will do one more too"
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Blitz66
post Aug 12 2011, 07:38 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Aug 12 2011, 08:34 PM) *
And he STILL owes us another SpaceBalls . .
He said:"If lucas does three more, i will do one more too"

Yeah, but it will be tough to make more of a joke of Star Wars than Lucas did...
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CanRay
post Aug 12 2011, 07:41 PM
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Mel Brooks and his family can do it.

The man made World War II a joke. DURING World War II! While fighting in it!
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Grinder
post Aug 12 2011, 07:46 PM
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And now back to topic, please. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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CanRay
post Aug 12 2011, 07:53 PM
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And now for something completely different.

Serrin Shamandar and his wife, their circle of lives, and the fact that they keep getting kicked about by fate. Opinions?
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Stahlseele
post Aug 12 2011, 07:55 PM
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life in the 60's?
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 12 2011, 08:14 PM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 12 2011, 12:53 PM) *
And now for something completely different.

Serrin Shamandar and his wife, their circle of lives, and the fact that they keep getting kicked about by fate. Opinions?


Who? Which Megacorp are they from? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
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Stormdrake
post Aug 12 2011, 08:43 PM
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What is Lofwyrs Initiate Grade?
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Stahlseele
post Aug 12 2011, 08:43 PM
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not from any corp, as far as i know.
even if they are probably pretty well liked by fuchi . .
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Grinder
post Aug 12 2011, 08:51 PM
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QUOTE (Stormdrake @ Aug 12 2011, 10:43 PM) *
What is Lofwyrs Initiate Grade?


QUOTE
Initiate Level: 25+
(Street Legends, pg.135)
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Patrick Goodman
post Aug 12 2011, 09:10 PM
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QUOTE (Fortinbras @ Aug 9 2011, 11:47 PM) *
What is truly unnerving is that Icarus casually mentions that Deus is out there. This is a direct contradiction from Emergence. The God-like AIs were dead, integrated into the Matrix as a whole. That was the point of bringing about non-God like AIs. Letting them be PCs even.

I've not read this entry in a while, so I might be misremembering, but I think another interpretation of this is that Puck believes that Deus is back and after him, and Icarus casually mentioned that belief. Doesn't have to be true to make a character like that spend his life looking over his shoulder.

I could be wrong here, though, since I'd have to reread the entry to be sure (and frankly, the character has never been one of my favorites, or one that I even care much about, so I haven't looked him over too carefully to begin with). Just something to think about.
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Bull
post Aug 12 2011, 10:45 PM
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It could have been more clear, but between Slamm-0!'s flippant tone ("Hey Deus, I'll tell you where to find him!") and Snopes comment about how reports that Deus is still around are unsubstantiated both infer that Icarus is talking more about Puck's paranoia and belief that Deus survived and is after him.

That said, if anything could have survived Winternights attack... It would have been Deus. And I can full believe that a lot of Matrix regulars believe he's out there lurking still. Deus is the 2070's equivalent of the boogyman. Ask any Jackpointer to their face if they think he's dead, and they'll say of course. But get a few drinks in them, and they'll tell you about seeing or hearing something on the Matrix that didn't make sense, or admit that late at night when no one else is around, they double check their 'deck before going to bed.

Bull
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Nath
post Aug 12 2011, 10:51 PM
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QUOTE (Bull @ Aug 13 2011, 12:45 AM) *
That said, if anything could have survived Winternights attack... It would have been Deus.
If only one thing had survived Winternight attack, Richard Villiers would manage to be that one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
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Smirnov
post Aug 12 2011, 11:56 PM
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Just got the book and skimmed through it. Why are there so many JackPointers and so few other guys? I wanted to read more on those who shape the world.
But so far the book looks sweet. Other than Aina. What the hell was that!? I read about Artifacts, but still. It's like a book tells you that the killer is the gardener, full stop. And only in the next book you will read about who's gardener he is and who is killed. Blows away all suspence.

My only complaint would be art. The picture for Agent has him with cyberarm when stats say he has no augmentations. And he has a head to big for the body. It looks awkward. But that's minor point. How could they make such awesome art for minor characters so much fuck up, pardon me, the big ones? I mean, after I looked at Villiers, I wanted to tear my eyes out. But what was seen can't be unseen. And in Worlds Without Ends Lowfyr is depicted quite passable for a human - Aina doesn't recognise himat first. If he was looking like in the book, there's no chance she wouldn't know who he is. On the other hand, Hestaby looks even pretty. And I always imagined Nadja to be blonde. Maybe because she's baltic. But that's with almost all named characters - I imagined them to be different from the pictures. Seems you can't guess all the time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

QUOTE (Critias @ Aug 12 2011, 01:01 AM) *
Thorn writing a gear book would quickly degenerate into "Blah blah blah ultra heavy pistol blah blah blah full auto capable blah blah eight billion round magazine blah blah blah. Big deal! Who needs all that? When I was 23, I killed seven men with a five-shot holdout. I shot five of them in the brain because I know how to fucking aim, threw the gun at the next one, and strangled the third. YOU DAMNED KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN."

I'm stealing this as quote for one character. That's awesome!
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CanRay
post Aug 13 2011, 12:00 AM
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QUOTE (Critias @ Aug 11 2011, 04:01 PM) *
Thorn writing a gear book would quickly degenerate into "Blah blah blah ultra heavy pistol blah blah blah full auto capable blah blah eight billion round magazine blah blah blah. Big deal! Who needs all that? When I was 23, I killed seven men with a five-shot holdout. I shot five of them in the brain because I know how to fucking aim, threw the gun at the next one, and strangled the third. YOU DAMNED KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN."
I want to write a gear book now.
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hermit
post Aug 13 2011, 12:51 AM
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QUOTE
Old stuff is fine, but really, we have more than enough of it. Where are the new super-shiny toys the megas are supposed to be throwing our way, huh?!

In War! and Attitude, sad but true.

QUOTE
So one has to be a pacifist to refuse killing people in cold blood during a B&E job? Sounds more like generally accepted (IRL) morality to me. Even among the various varieties of intentional homicide, offing someone to facilitate or cover another crime is usually considered to be particularly bad.

It's another case of incoherent characterisation.

QUOTE
Serrin Shamandar and his wife, their circle of lives, and the fact that they keep getting kicked about by fate. Opinions?

The universe just hates them?



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CanRay
post Aug 13 2011, 02:16 AM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 12 2011, 02:53 PM) *
Serrin Shamandar and his wife, their circle of lives, and the fact that they keep getting kicked about by fate. Opinions?
QUOTE (hermit @ Aug 12 2011, 07:51 PM) *
The universe just hates them?
That's a lot of hate, man. They've been kicked about for generations, apparently.

'Course, we get to see what happens when SS goes wrong. SERRIN SMASH!!!
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Stahlseele
post Aug 13 2011, 11:33 AM
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QUOTE
by Smirnov
QUOTE
by James Meiers
Anyway, no one gave a shit about Aina Dupree until I killed her so, yeah, whatever. Her death was necessary, but hey, it's not like I've written in the past about killing storylines (and characters).


QUOTE
by Neurosis
QUOTE
by James Meiers
An immortal elf. Harlequin's best friend. Dead.
(She was also the Vice Chair turned Acting Chair of the Draco Foundation)


It's going to be hard making him give a shit about that character, since I don't in any way shape or form give a shit about her. I will endeavor to manage.

Normally when the word 'Mary Sue' comes up I get pissed, because I think it gets overused to a pretty disgusting degree by people with a much-too-broad definition of what it means. But Aina Dupree, if it's the character I'm thinking of, is one of the worst EVER.

That's sad to read.
First of all, there are people who care about Aina. Our group for example. For ones, we have Aina as major NPC in the campaign.
Yes, Aina was a strange cookie in an already disfunctional family that immortal elves are. But just because you try to avoid your slightly insane uncle whenever you can doesn't mean you don't love him. Especially not in the way 'since no one cares, she dies. Ha-ha!'
Secondly, Harlequin, Aina's close friend, one time lover, comrade-in-arms and one of the few people on earth (save probably the late Dunkelzahn) who took her seriously, wouldn't care about Aina? Wouldn't care about the death of one of the dozen, at most, human beings in the whole world who are on par with him? He may have had his reservations about her, but he loved her.
And I can understand that her death is part of the yet unpublished story (which must be real big as Aina is [should try using 'was'] second only to Harlequin himself in power), but the attitude towards it baffles me. If she is such unwanted child, why just don't leave her out? The death of the character of the scope Aina was is a big deal, it should serve some purpose other than just to get rid of her and make some big waves. This could as well wake other elves up. As far as I know, immortals have never previously lost one of their own.

To stop grumbling, the book itself is good and pretty. I have some issues with art for the last two chapters and Agent, but other than that art is superb.



http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?top...g65515#msg65515

and this is basically all that i find wrong with the current writing of shadowrun in one single posting . .
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