You start to develop special "packages", specific firearms kitted out in specific ways with specific modifications for specific tasks, as you look at the firearm rules.

The P93 Praetor is unmatched as a very portable bullet hose, the Ares Crusader (properly fitted and loaded) can drop an entire room of guards, the Colt Government is a solid sidearm with an excellent clip-size, the Colt M23 is incredibly cheap and can be modified to be anything and everything it's user needs it to be, the Desert Strike can be modified to hit targets further than the character can see, the SPAS-22 is a hard-hitting door breaker, a Morrisey Elan can stealthily drop a troll, and a pair of Defiance EX Shockers can floor the first troll's brother.

It's all about learning what works best for what you need.

I'll do some digging when I get access to my books back - I have nothing in Dead Tree Format, and the manufacturer recently mailed my laptop back to me a second time, and I'm hoping it is actually fixed this time - but from the look of things, the HVBR will be my preferred boomstick for situations and characters lacking subtlety. Power and versatility. I'll have to see what I like in terms of pistols and machine pistols for backup.

And, of course, my understanding of how to most effectively arm drones and vehicles has grown immensely thanks to these threads. Yeah, this is gonna be fun.

I'm leaning towards one of these as my PCs next gun, but I'm not very happy with a clip of 12 when the weapon can only fire narrow bursts.

That's 4 shots, or 5 if you get an extended clip. Powerful shots, yes, but even so...

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Does anyone else find the difference between a pistol with a burst fire mode and a machine pistol somewhat arbitary? To my mind, machine pistols should use the pistols skill, if the Thunderhawk does...

Incredibly arbitrary, yes. The way the firearms groups are broken up astonishes me. It gave me a little trouble at first, but eh. It'll do, until there's another edition with its own arbitrary delineation rationale that may or may not attempt to be superior to this one.

I find if you make stick-n-shock for shotguns only, and don't allow war, that each group has their purpose. Pistols is for small, concealable, legal guns, automatics are for the good guns, and longarms are the specialty weapons.

That still doesn't address the fact that some pistols with burst fire are in the pistols group, and some pistols with burst fire are in the Automatics group. Surely firing an FN 5-7c is MUCH more similar to firing a Ruger Thunderbolt than firing an Ares HVAR?

Any weapon that has no foregrip and so is used either in one hand or with both hands on the single grip, should use the pistols skill IMO.

It's a central problem of basically ALL roleplaying systems that skillsets or proficiencies have arbitrary divisions - just so that not everyone can do everything. If you don't like it, house rule it.

The other completely arbitrary thing is all that restricted/forbidden crap. I mean if corps (and I don't just mean AAAs) can get licenses for these weapons, then there must be fake licenses for them. And for instance, probably half the corpsec of Seattle has 227s, which come with a silencer out of the box. Basically if I don't want to think about what to give any given enemy grunt, I'll give him a 227. But that should be an F gun, right? (And I admit I don't know, because I just use DKs sheet to build opposition, and he only listed availability, not legality for weapons.) So what's the point of this?

If the whole point is just to force you to get a more elaborate fake SIN with MORE fake licenses, then...

I've never needed to use either. There are enough mods for recoil compensation you can put on weapons to negate all recoil you could incur.

EDIT:


Wait, what? You do know that: 1) There's a light pistol in the core book that has a 30 round clip. You also mentioned the Ares Crusader, who's 40 round clip is even better. 2) That's only a range of 1.65 kilometers - easily within sight.

The Fichetti Security is good, but the Colt Government is a heavy pistol and has better recoil compensation possibilities.

The Crusader is also good, but it's better modified to be a concealable bullet hose.

A rifle, properly modified and wielded by a character with the right qualities, can make shots beyond that range with little negative impact.

Except that the Current Record for a confirmed kill with a Modified Rifle (Hunting Rifle adapted Sniper Rifle, so a 7.62 Caliber Bullet) is considerably less than that, sitting at just under 1400 Meters (1375 meters I believe, but I may be off by a few meters or so, performed by an Army Sniper in Iraq). There are no rules in place for you to attempt a shot beyond Extreme Range in game, and often, you will be considerably closer than that due to lines of sight and effect. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And that's just a 7.62mm round. The .50 BMG Match Grade is well beyond even that. Although Canada no longer holds that record from what I've heard. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

I've had characters attempt a shot from two miles. He missed, but that's beside the point (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

No you can't because that is the maximum range for the gun.

"They're firing 20mm caseless fletchette rounds at 300 meters. The effective lethal range is 200 meters."

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)





-k

I want a 20mm caseless flechette firearm now. For duck hunting.

Hmm, for un-modded guns (i.e., "I need to stash some guns someplace." or "I need to pick up a gun when I get there" or "I need a gun that can't easily be traced to me") it's really hard to get past the Ares Viper Slivergun. Its integral (and merely restricted! yay!) silencer means that it's suitable for keeping under the radar. In addition, its 8P +5ap damage code means that even before burst fire it's 1P up on a conventional heavy pistol, assuming equal ballistic/impact armor (and impact is often less). Honestly, the only downside is the inability to use stick and shock... but you could just get a taser if you wanted.

Similar fun with legal silencers is had with the Ingram Smartgun X; for those who need an un-modded FA weapon.

My favorite "backup" firearm has got to be my pistol adept's Echiro Hatamoto II (with modded under-barrel Echiro Hatamoto II). This is the gun to pull out when the regular pistol just isn't getting through the armor. Shock lock rounds count as explosive rounds when you aren't using them to open doors! Also good for the lols when using gel rounds to knock over trolls (this is about the only pistol that will have a decent shot at it).

It's been kicked around a bit, but a Panther Assault Cannon with an Underbelly Panther Assault Cannon gives you a nice Over-Under Double-Barreled "Shotgun" for Troll Hillbillies.

Yeah, I don't think the underbarrel same gun mod is amazingly abusive. It's basically just a more expensive version of getting an extended clip. Only really useful for using different ammo types or for extra style points.

Technically, extended clip would be cheaper but not sure it can be applied to internal mags.

Seems silly that they didn't make the weapon double-barrelled in the first place.

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Its also one of those oddities - why does it get 7P when the other "shotgun pistol" only gets 5P...

****

But thanks for the idea - probably won't use an over-and-under Hatamoto II, but might well stick one under the barrel of a slivergun, for those occasions when I can't do an armour-bypassing called shot.

Ha! Note that giving an underbarrel mod to a slivergun voids the warranty on one of the best parts about an awesome gun... that you can use it un-modded. Of course, if you don't mind using easily-recognizable weapons, then by all means, go nuts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


"Well officer, he was using a standard nickel-plated slivergun, but it had these built-up looking ebony grips, a blued finish flame pattern on the front half of the slide, oh! and it had what looked like a shotgun barrel machined onto the bottom of the gun in front of the trigger guard."

"So you think you'd recognize the weapon if you saw it again?"

"Hell, I'm thinking of having one made for myself... Why yes, I do have Ares corporate citizenship, why do you ask?"

If I'm pulling out the slivergun on a job, I don't intend to leave any witnesses (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I certainly wouldn't allow a Hatamoto under a slivergun… it's bigger, facrissake. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Also, I typically follow the rules: "This mod is generally only available for longarms, machine guns, and assault cannons." You're right that the cost, Conceal penalty, ammo and RC penalties, etc. make it a general non-abusive choice.

Both are heavy pistols, and no scale is given on the pics. Most of the pic of the Hamamoto seems to be furniture rather than mechanism.



That, however, is a valid argument. Of course, it voids the original Hamamoto/Hamamoto idea too.

I dunno anything about separating the 'real gun' from the 'furniture', but the Hatamoto is clearly big. It has a shoulder stock on there for scale… plus is has a shoulder stock. Theoretically that means it needs it, being a big ol' punch.

The illustration has a shoulder stock, the description says nothing about such a thing. So its clearly sold without one.