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Seriously Mike
post Aug 21 2011, 12:49 PM
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So, I'm finally feeling like putting some introductory missions together for a LA-based campaign. I'm taking some inspirations from the sandbox video games like GTA and Saints' Row, just so the players have some choice between doing serious jobs for various Johnsons and pulling diversions for the lulz, notoriety and spare change (I'll set them up with P2.0 accounts early on, and they have already been informed about bonuses arising from that). Additionally, I changed the concept of P2.0 a bit (read about it on my blog) - in short, ordinary schmoes can watch and maybe comment, but if you want to upload and stream stuff yourself, you need that prized invitation.

Now, my plan was to drop the players off in San Fernando (pretty safe, very boring, although with some jobs to do) and give them some introductory runs there and on the islands (IMHO the islands weren't given enough attention in Corporate Enclaves, I had some thoughts about it too), then gradually move them to other parts of the city. However, I don't really know Shadowrun's power scale: what can I throw at starter characters, how much XP should they get, the enemies that require specific methods to be dispatched (like Shedim and magic) and how much force can the factions muster in case the PC get on their bad side. As in my signature: expect stupid questions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

So the first stupid question: what kind of jobs can the starter characters get, and from whom? Corporate, criminal and others?
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ggodo
post Aug 21 2011, 05:15 PM
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Depends on the PCs. If one of them has mob contacts they're likely going to be doing mob jobs till they get a rep and start getting hired by other folks, if any of them have a fixer contact you can use that as an in-game reason to send them on pretty much any run you can think of. Power level in Shadowrun is tricky simply because survivability is soooooooooo low, especially for low level NPCs. Using the standard 400 point build, players who optimize well, or are just lucky, can build characters capable of some truly scary things, offensively. Defense is pretty hard in Shadowrun, generally he who shoots first walks away. You should look at your player's dice pools before deciding what you send against them, but any of the SR4A NPCS are low level threats, even the Red Samurai are pretty lame compared to what my players cook up. I've found the best way to make threats is pretend everyone's a kobold. Use terrain, traps, and positioning to put your runners at a disadvantage, because in a straight fight, my players shoot down everything. As for rewards, I still haven't found a good way to scale that, but I'd recommend looking at the pre-published adventures for ideas. Some of my players have complained that I send too much magical stuff at them, but it adds some variety, and they don't notice the cybered guys they're always fighting. It's hard to stand out when everyone uses assault rifles, but giant bugs? Everyone remembers the bugs.
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Seriously Mike
post Aug 21 2011, 05:47 PM
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Hmmm, I'm a big fan of terrain effects and will probably create some handy tools to keep track of cover, positioning and other things like exploding barrels, loose high-voltage wires etc. As for the jobs, I'd also ask about the scale: how much is too much to involve beginning runners without treating them as expendable.
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HunterHerne
post Aug 21 2011, 07:17 PM
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QUOTE (Seriously Mike @ Aug 21 2011, 01:47 PM) *
Hmmm, I'm a big fan of terrain effects and will probably create some handy tools to keep track of cover, positioning and other things like exploding barrels, loose high-voltage wires etc. As for the jobs, I'd also ask about the scale: how much is too much to involve beginning runners without treating them as expendable.


No matter where on the scale, the idea is: the PC's are being hired because they are expendable. Give them some diversion runs, and see how they do them. Personally, I would think researching tactics of radicals who *might* be in the area, and then following their example, would make a good tactic fr "Mirrorshades" diversions. Lots of noise, with little trace to you.
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Angelone
post Aug 21 2011, 07:21 PM
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For new runners they should be doing low end jobs, such as deliveries in the local area, security on goods or meets, low level enforcement, surveillance. Once they get comfortable with that they can graduate to stuff like extractions and tougher versions of what they were doing.

Edit- The sega version of the game does a good job of starting you low then working you up.
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CanRay
post Aug 21 2011, 07:22 PM
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There's always stealing Ford AmeriCars. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Glyph
post Aug 21 2011, 07:33 PM
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I would probably wait and see what kind of characters the players come up with, first (unless you have some firmer ideas about the power level of the campaign, in which case you need to clearly communicate that to the PCs). The trouble with starting characters is that they aren't really "beginning" characters, and they can range all the way up and down the power scale.

But don't worry about power disparities as much as letting everyone do their thing, being sure everyone can work together with minimal friction, and giving everyone some spotlight time. If the super-troll owns combat, the face tries to leverage his way into the simflick business, and the private eye gets the dirt on people, and the three of them all mesh together as they help each other's goals (the troll acting as muscle for the other two, the face using the blackmail material the private eye gets him, etc.) then it doesn't matter as much if the troll can soak an auto-cannon, the face can sell ice to Eskimos, and the private eye is a generalist with lots of dice pools in the 10-12 range.

If they are new players, they might need to be eased into the setting, so I would do some simpler jobs at first, as they learn all of the unwritten rules of how the setting works.
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Ascalaphus
post Aug 21 2011, 11:00 PM
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If you have first-time players: run a one-off adventure with pregenerated characters. This gives everyone a first taste of the system, and of the kind of power available to PCs in it. It's quite acceptable if one of the pregens dies (horribly), just to give the players some idea of how dangerous it can be, too.



Then, sit down with your players and have a good talk about the style you want to run. There's a lot of different styles you could be running, and it's good if everyone is on the same page. For example:
* Gutter scum, scraping by on lousy jobs, trying to make it to the big leagues
* People with ordinary jobs who take a Job now and then to make ends meet
* High-roller criminals with extravagant lifestyles, who Run to finance their pleasure; Work Hard Play Hard
* Stone cold pros
* Rebels against The System, taking jobs from The Man against other Evil Corporations (cuz it's never selling out if a corporation gets hurt!) to buy more guns for The Revolution
etc.

Also talk a bit about the power level for characters, and what kind of payout is normal for jobs in your campaign.

And THEN have the players talk with each other about who is going to play what. That way you get a more coherent party, with characters made to suit the setting. PCs can complement each other instead of competing to be the best in one niche - a good reason to build characters together. This also makes it easier to deal with impossible PC personality combinations before they become a problem.
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CanRay
post Aug 21 2011, 11:18 PM
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"I need you to go and extract one particular Goofy from DisneyLand and..."
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Magus
post Aug 22 2011, 03:43 AM
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But this is LA and the normal rules for Shadowrun do not apply here. Here you cant do mirrorshades as the paparazi are tailing you everywhere. My group hates LA. I sent them there once and they complained the whole trip. LOL
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Angelone
post Aug 22 2011, 03:51 AM
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Adapt and overcome, when in Rome, and all that jazz. If you want to become number one with the bullet you can't just stay in your comfort zone.
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CanRay
post Aug 22 2011, 04:29 AM
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Why is it every time I read this subject heading, I think of "The Fast and The Furious" series?
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Seriously Mike
post Aug 22 2011, 07:28 AM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 22 2011, 06:29 AM) *
Why is it every time I read this subject heading, I think of "The Fast and The Furious" series?

That's a... that's a good idea, I like it. Funny thing, yesterday I had an idea of one diversion being a street race.

Also, my players already played Shadowrun, it's just me who's starting in the biz. However, I don't want to make stupid mistakes my L5R GM did: overpowered (straight up) mooks, NPCs having no other role than being a deus ex machina for getting the players' asses out of trouble and poor research of the game world's culture and major factions.
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CanRay
post Aug 22 2011, 02:56 PM
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It's LA. Crank up the weird and the crazy and watch the "Beverly Hills Cop" series a few times.
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Seriously Mike
post Aug 22 2011, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 22 2011, 04:56 PM) *
It's LA. Crank up the weird and the crazy and watch the "Beverly Hills Cop" series a few times.
Dude, it's gonna be Saints' Row 2 and GTA San Andreas in there, that crazy enough for ya? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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CanRay
post Aug 22 2011, 09:45 PM
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QUOTE (Seriously Mike @ Aug 22 2011, 04:42 PM) *
Dude, it's gonna be Saints' Row 2 and GTA San Andreas in there, that crazy enough for ya? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
No. Saints Row The Third. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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ggodo
post Aug 23 2011, 06:21 AM
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Isn't that SR's LA?
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Seriously Mike
post Aug 23 2011, 07:17 AM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 22 2011, 11:45 PM) *
No. Saints Row The Third. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
...oh yeah, UCLA students building a Manapult that actually runs on mana. And playing beer pong in a pool with it.
QUOTE (ggodo @ Aug 23 2011, 08:21 AM) *
Isn't that SR's LA?
It probably is.
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Seriously Mike
post Aug 26 2011, 10:54 AM
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Quick question: where do I look for creating AI and Free Spirit characters? Just in case, CorpEnc states that there's one famous restaurant in LA run by a Free Spirit, I just want to see what they can do.
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Angelone
post Aug 26 2011, 01:31 PM
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Paraphrasing "You may have escaped New York cabrone, but this is LA and this city can kill anybody! "
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CanRay
post Aug 26 2011, 03:17 PM
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QUOTE (Seriously Mike @ Aug 26 2011, 05:54 AM) *
Quick question: where do I look for creating AI and Free Spirit characters? Just in case, CorpEnc states that there's one famous restaurant in LA run by a Free Spirit, I just want to see what they can do.
Runner's Companion, Pages 68-70.
QUOTE (Angelone @ Aug 26 2011, 08:31 AM) *
Paraphrasing "You may have escaped New York cabrone, but this is LA and this city can kill anybody! "
"SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE SNAKE!!!" "This town loves a winner."
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TheWanderingJewe...
post Aug 29 2011, 05:09 PM
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or for a only slightly more sane setting, Watch the film "Colors" that was hype film about the fighting between the Bloods and the Crips. For the more insane version, Transplant "Fear and Loathing In Las Vegas" to L.A.
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CanRay
post Aug 29 2011, 07:24 PM
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QUOTE (TheWanderingJewels @ Aug 29 2011, 12:09 PM) *
or for a only slightly more sane setting, Watch the film "Colors" that was hype film about the fighting between the Bloods and the Crips. For the more insane version, Transplant "Fear and Loathing In Las Vegas" to L.A.
"This is Crips Country, we can't stop here!"
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sunnyside
post Aug 29 2011, 09:35 PM
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QUOTE (Seriously Mike @ Aug 21 2011, 12:47 PM) *
Hmmm, I'm a big fan of terrain effects and will probably create some handy tools to keep track of cover, positioning and other things like exploding barrels, loose high-voltage wires etc. As for the jobs, I'd also ask about the scale: how much is too much to involve beginning runners without treating them as expendable.


Alright, here's my personal take on these things.

First of all, while it might be realistic for starting runners to have some lame Segaish "walk this package from Shiawase Atomics to Hollywood Correctional" jobs, I find they don't play so well.

Instead I prefir creating smaller ponds in which starting runners can still feel a bit like big fish. I.e. doing private eye kind of stuff or dealing with small gangs and the like. Maybe going after a small cell of low magic eco terrorists.

As for the scale of the threats, I'm increasingly getting zen about this. This isn't D&D where they're going into a dungeon to kill the Wumpus and you've gotta balance out everything. Actually, I highly encourage you to NOT make your adventures dungeon crawls in high rises.

As a result legwork, hacking, and non-combat stuff becomes very important. And if they have to duck into some shadows and run than that doesn't hose the mission neccessarily.

They've also got "get out of jail free" edge on hand and they'll actually enjoy the occasional combat cakewalk.

So the point is, don't worry to much about threats they have to go up against.

Do worry about how much you want groups to be able to go after them. I think that greatly affects the tone of a game. Personally, I have what could be sent after them very high, but it all depends on what they do.

Actually, I highly encourage one of the early runs being one where the team has to find another group of Shadowrunners who gunned down the CEOs secretary (mistress).

Again this has the small pond effect because the opposition is just a relatively isolated team of runners. But it also serves to teach some important lessons.

-be careful who you piss off
-you're easier to find than you think (contacts can be bought, survelance cams can be hacked, cop contacts can follow up on forensics, and you almost have to stick the other team under some magic protection to keep that from being too easy).
-you are glass cannons (the other team can be made of similar 400BP characters )

All around I find it's always a fun run, relatively easy to manage, and fun to write as the GM because lets be honest, we like making characters too.
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Seriously Mike
post Aug 30 2011, 07:23 AM
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QUOTE (sunnyside @ Aug 29 2011, 11:35 PM) *
Alright, here's my personal take on these things.

First of all, while it might be realistic for starting runners to have some lame Segaish "walk this package from Shiawase Atomics to Hollywood Correctional" jobs, I find they don't play so well.

Instead I prefir creating smaller ponds in which starting runners can still feel a bit like big fish. I.e. doing private eye kind of stuff or dealing with small gangs and the like. Maybe going after a small cell of low magic eco terrorists.

's what I'm planning to do. At first they'll be dealing with small-time crooks in SFV, just so they don't piss any big corps too early. And the corps surely won't be giving a fuck about some two-bit goons tailing and beating people up for money.

QUOTE (sunnyside @ Aug 29 2011, 11:35 PM) *
As for the scale of the threats, I'm increasingly getting zen about this. This isn't D&D where they're going into a dungeon to kill the Wumpus and you've gotta balance out everything. Actually, I highly encourage you to NOT make your adventures dungeon crawls in high rises.

As a result legwork, hacking, and non-combat stuff becomes very important. And if they have to duck into some shadows and run than that doesn't hose the mission neccessarily.

They've also got "get out of jail free" edge on hand and they'll actually enjoy the occasional combat cakewalk.

So the point is, don't worry to much about threats they have to go up against.

We usually play World of Darkness, and our WtF GM has a "Shadow of the Colossus" approach to combat - every fight is a boss fight and if we do fight, we have to be crazy prepared. During ten game sessions (long ones), we fought TWICE.
However, my main problem is pacing - I don't have a clear view how fast should the threats escalate just so it keeps the players on edge, but doesn't outright steamroll them. It would suck if they dropped a metaphorical anvil on themselves three sessions in.
QUOTE (sunnyside @ Aug 29 2011, 11:35 PM) *
Do worry about how much you want groups to be able to go after them. I think that greatly affects the tone of a game. Personally, I have what could be sent after them very high, but it all depends on what they do.

Actually, I highly encourage one of the early runs being one where the team has to find another group of Shadowrunners who gunned down the CEOs secretary (mistress).

Again this has the small pond effect because the opposition is just a relatively isolated team of runners. But it also serves to teach some important lessons.

-be careful who you piss off
-you're easier to find than you think (contacts can be bought, survelance cams can be hacked, cop contacts can follow up on forensics, and you almost have to stick the other team under some magic protection to keep that from being too easy).
-you are glass cannons (the other team can be made of similar 400BP characters )

All around I find it's always a fun run, relatively easy to manage, and fun to write as the GM because lets be honest, we like making characters too.
Fighting another shadowteam makes a nice finale for a short story arc. I actually have idea for that - title and concept. The title is "Men Who Hate Women" (there will be a hacker called the Salamander in the campaign, just having nothing to do with this arc) and the concept is working for, and then against, a prostitution/porn film ring. Bunraku "puppets", client with odd tastes, this kind of stuff.
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