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Elfenlied
post Aug 31 2011, 08:17 AM
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I was wondering what they teach new recruits at Knight Errant academy, assuming you're actually a promising candidate (so no skillwire packages please). This is just about the basics, what every field detective should know. Also, this will probably be ridiculously expensive in BP, but doable in Karmagen.

The list thus far:
Basic physical and mental exercise/screening: No stat below 3.
Athletics 2
Firearms 2
Close Combat 2
Perception 3
Etiquette 2
Pilot Ground Craft 2
First Aid 2

Anything I might have missed?
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Minchandre
post Aug 31 2011, 08:34 AM
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Maybe add Con? Cops often have to trick people when trying to get confessions or witness testimony. Tracking might be good too, for investigations.

MAybe those are both detectives' skills?

Anyway, requiring all of Firearms and Close Combat is unnecessary. Pick one or two skills from each.
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Aerospider
post Aug 31 2011, 08:59 AM
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Intimidation is a must for law enforcement I'd say.

Also, police have to be excellent drivers so you might consider the pilot skill being a minimum of 3, maybe even 4.
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TheOOB
post Aug 31 2011, 09:01 AM
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Here are the standard stats I use for a standard beat cop. This isn't specifically a detective, nor is it a desk jocky or a meter maid. Stats assume human

Physical Attributes 4
Mental Attributes 3

Automatics 2
Longarms 2
Pistols(Automatics) 2(+2)
Perception(Concealed Objects) 3(+2)
Etiquette 2
Leadership(Crowd Control) 3(+2)
Pilot Ground Craft(Car) 2(+2)
Computers 1
Data Search 1
Close Combat Skill Group 2
Athletics Skill Group 2
Forgery 1
Intimidation 3

Public Security Protocol 3
City Navigation 3
City Laws 2
City Gang Recognition 2
Street Drugs 1

Ares Predator IV
Armored Jacket
Monocle w/Image-Link, Smart-link, and Low-Light Vision
Earbuds
AR Gloves
Holo Projector
Stun Baton
Custom Knight-Errant Public Security Commlink(System 3, Signal 3, Response 3, Firewall 4, Analyse 3, Scan 3, Edit 2)
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Seriously Mike
post Aug 31 2011, 10:36 AM
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What would be the difference between getting the whole Close Combat skill group as opposed to investing only in Unarmed and Clubs? Or is there another necessary skill in the group, like Dodge?
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Infornography
post Aug 31 2011, 11:05 AM
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Unarmed Combat (Subdue) and Clubs (Batons) or Clubs (Prods) instead of Close Combat.
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Kliko
post Aug 31 2011, 11:11 AM
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what ever happened to the "Police procedures" skill?

Or "Security procedures" for that matter.

Perhaps you want to include first aid in there too.
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Grinder
post Aug 31 2011, 11:13 AM
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Check out this old thread.
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suoq
post Aug 31 2011, 12:38 PM
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Pistols (Tasers) 2
Automatics (Submachine Guns) 2 - Note: Personal belief is cops should have additional clip, one clip with S&S, one with APDS. Anyone still standing after being told to lie down with their hands on their head and a hefty spraying of S&S gets the ADPS.
Unarmed Combat (Shock Glove) 2
Athletics 2
Pilot Ground Craft 2
Influence 3
Intimidation 3
Perception 3

Additional weapon skills per job.
Additional pilot skills per job.
Some may have stealth skills.
Some may have computer or even hacking skills.
Some may have additional levels. What's above is a minimum.
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Critias
post Aug 31 2011, 03:56 PM
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I'm a tremendous advocate of the whole Firearms skill group for cops (in part because of how weird individual gun skills are). For the most part the basic equipment SR gives to patrol officers is largely based on real life (for once).

Everyone's got a pistol and qualifies with it regularly (one skill), the "go to" backup gun in most cruisers is still a pump action shotgun (a second skill), and more and more departments are adding an M4 of some kind to the trunk, for real shit hitting the fan situations (another skill). Since even just a default uniformed officer cruising around in a squad car needs to certify once a year with three different gun skills, the Firearm skill group just makes sense.

And training in Automatics also gives your SWATties a basic grasp of Automatics (so some can go on to use an SMG if they want), and the Long guns they have for Shotguns means eventually someone can branch out into sport/sniper rifles if they want to. SotA 2064 has a good rundown of the SWAT/Fast Response Team load-outs for those who are interested, and starting each officer off with the Firearm skill group at a reasonable level is a great way to get them halfway to where they'll need to be, die-pool wise.
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CanRay
post Aug 31 2011, 03:58 PM
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"Knowledge skill of 'Law'" might come in handy. Just sayin'.
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explorator
post Aug 31 2011, 04:08 PM
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Someone who just graduated from K-E academy would not be a 'field detective'. Detectives are chosen from the ranks of regular cops that apply each year, and then get added training. Almost every detective has an undergrad degree in CJ, as most PD's require it.

Today, cops spend 6 months in the Academy. They are paid a full salary as soon as they are hired, so there is motivation to get them trained and on the street asap. While in the Academy, cops learn all about police bureaucracy, police and court procedure, law, and local ordinances. Recruits learn to fire handguns and shotguns, learn basic small-unit tactics, train with their 'billy-clubs', and learn hand-to-hand submission and control techniques. Recruits also learn to drive their cruisers and maximize advantages in chase situations. In a handful of cities in the U.S. officers learn to fire a semi-automatic rifle similar to the AR-15. Cops do not learn first-aid, and are trained to call the paramedics if they suffer an injury in the line of duty, if they see someone with an obvious injury, or if someone makes a credible complaint of an injury.

The other reason training is only six months, is that there really is only so much a recruit can learn in the classroom. The second half of training takes place on the street under the tutelage of specially-prepared Training Officers. This usually lasts six-months, but can be extended up to a year in most cases if a recruit needs more time to get up to speed. After that, most cops are largely on there own, literally and figuratively. They spend their shifts by themselves in a squad car, driving around answering calls. TBH, if there are not many calls, there is little to do. It takes an exceptional officer to initiate any kind of pro-active 'policing' other than just making a presence. Most recruits make it to the streets. Chances are, the recruiting class was 10+ bodies short of what was requested, and the department needs warm bodies.

Sheriff deputies follow a similar arc, but often work for six months to a year as guards in the county jail, in addition to the other training. This time is spent learning to manage criminals,i.e. intimidation and negotiation, and learning the finer points of paperwork and bureaucracy.

The vast majority of cops never fire their weapon in the line of duty. Over half of a departments officer-shooting incidents revolve around less than 5% of the officers. The point being, that most street cops get very familiar with the areas they patrol, and get very proficient at filling out paperwork for car accidents and dui's, and very little else.

After spending several years in uniform, most agencies allow officers to apply for more specialized positions. Detectives get additional training, some in a classroom setting, and some on the streets. Their study concentrates on advanced interrogation and intimidation techniques, along with the psychological implications of dealing with dishonest or deceptive individuals. As far a forensics go, most detectives learn about crime-scene integrity and little else, unless they have personal interest. In almost ALL the cops shows, ALL the detectives go to the morgue and talk to the coroner, but this is mostly a fiction, irl, the detectives are extremely busy, and they already saw the dead body and learned what they could at the scene; reading the report is about as good as it gets.

Now, this is a world where law-enforcement is publicly funded. Today's police departments use private-security firms to handle basic security at facilities/parking lots, etc. That's right, many cops have to show their ID to a security guard on a daily basis. Private security is very affordable compared to staffing those areas with cops, which is how it worked in the past.

Now, K-E is probably a great corp, that cares about its employees and spends top-dollar training their officers. Right? A K-E officer would have to be highly self-motivated to match the type of character described in the OP.

This got kind of off topic, sorry. I have a minor in CJ, and know some cops btw.
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CanRay
post Aug 31 2011, 04:14 PM
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Actually, don't we have some real members of police forces on here? Let's hear their two cents on their old Academy days?

...

Other than what happened with the Llama that you smuggled into the men's shower room. No one wants to hear about that.
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UmaroVI
post Aug 31 2011, 04:44 PM
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Remember that you use social skills to defend against other social skills - cops without Con are easy to lie to, for example.

I would suggest:
Probably they have more like a minimum of 3 in physical stats and 2 in mental stats. Someone with a minimum of 3 is going to be above-average, maybe significantly so if they have a few 4s or 5s. Half of all people are below average, and "KE Beat Cop" isn't exactly a glamorous profession that's going to attract nothing but the best and brightest.

I don't buy Athletics 2. Is your average beat cop going to be as good at gymnastics as a high school athlete? I think they should probably have Running 2 and maybe Climbing/Swimming 1.

I agree they need Firearms 2.

I don't think they should have close combat 2. Is a beat cop going to know what to do with a sword? They should probably have Clubs (Batons) and Unarmed (Subdual) as suggested.
Perception 3, First Aid 2, and Piloting 2 I agree, although they should maybe instead have Pilot Ground Vehicle (Wheeled) 1 (3) since they mostly just drive cruisers.

Social-skills wise, they should definitely have Intimidation (Physical) and Con, probably both at 2. Etiquette should probably be specialized in Police and at 1(3). They should also probably know Leadership, since it's used to exercise authority and thus would cover "getting citizens to do what you tell them."

Police Procedures 3 and Law 2 are also probably good.
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suoq
post Aug 31 2011, 04:54 PM
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QUOTE (UmaroVI @ Aug 31 2011, 11:44 AM) *
Is your average beat cop going to be as good at gymnastics as a high school athlete?

Since, oddly enough, "gymnastics" is your "dodge ranged fire" skill, and since I've seen cops practicing skills such as forwards rolls, I think you're focused too much on the name of the skill rather that the actual abilities it implies. Yes, I don't expect police officers to compete in gymnastics, but I do expect them to tumble, keep their balance when walking a beam, vault a counter, etc.

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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 31 2011, 04:55 PM
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QUOTE (suoq @ Aug 31 2011, 10:54 AM) *
Since, oddly enough, "gymnastics" is your "dodge ranged fire" skill, and since I've seen cops practicing skills such as forwards rolls, I think you're focused too much on the name of the skill rather that the actual abilities it implies. Yes, I don't expect police officers to compete in gymnastics, but I do expect them to tumble, keep their balance when walking a beam, vault a counter, etc.


Which is what Dodge is for, with a Ranged Specialty. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Seerow
post Aug 31 2011, 05:15 PM
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Not a single person mentioned Shadowing? Or is that generally considered more of a detective skill than a typical cop?
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suoq
post Aug 31 2011, 05:17 PM
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QUOTE (Seerow @ Aug 31 2011, 12:15 PM) *
Not a single person mentioned Shadowing? Or is that generally considered more of a detective skill than a typical cop?

QUOTE (suoq @ Aug 31 2011, 07:38 AM) *
Some may have stealth skills.

I saw the skills in that group being skill some, but not all, cops would have.
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AppliedCheese
post Aug 31 2011, 05:40 PM
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Of course, the counterpoint to some of these is thusly:

Most modern cops get very good at DUIs, car accidents, speeding tickets, and maybe handling the occasional drunken disturbance. Procedures, law, bureaucracy, and making sure you don't get sued are all very important functions.

If you were a beat cop in say, 1970's Harlem, you very likely had a somewhat more...immediately physical...skill set after a while. And there's a reason departments on I-95 train more on vehicle search and seizure, and the LAPD of the 90s was somewhat more combative in nature.

Because "firearms 2, law 2, bureaucracy lots" might be fine for policing 2011 suburbia, but I can't imagine its the basic skill pack in a world where go gangs run free, trolls are your domestic disturbances, there's such a thing as an ork flash-mob, and there's even the occasional shadow runner mucking about.

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Traul
post Aug 31 2011, 05:57 PM
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QUOTE (AppliedCheese @ Aug 31 2011, 06:40 PM) *
Because "firearms 2, law 2, bureaucracy lots" might be fine for policing 2011 suburbia, but I can't imagine its the basic skill pack in a world where go gangs run free, trolls are your domestic disturbances, there's such a thing as an ork flash-mob, and there's even the occasional shadow runner mucking about.

Security Procedures (Call for reinforcements) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
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CanRay
post Aug 31 2011, 07:07 PM
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QUOTE (Seerow @ Aug 31 2011, 12:15 PM) *
Not a single person mentioned Shadowing? Or is that generally considered more of a detective skill than a typical cop?
Should any of them have it?

I mean, hell, I can typically spot a police officer even off-duty. It's the eyes, hands, and walk. Very distinctive.
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Seerow
post Aug 31 2011, 07:12 PM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 31 2011, 07:07 PM) *
Should any of them have it?

I mean, hell, I can typically spot a police officer even off-duty. It's the eyes, hands, and walk. Very distinctive.


I was thinking shadowing for tailing and the like. Especially for undercover officers. Disguise probably wouldn't go amiss either.
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Critias
post Aug 31 2011, 07:23 PM
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QUOTE (Seerow @ Aug 31 2011, 02:12 PM) *
I was thinking shadowing for tailing and the like. Especially for undercover officers. Disguise probably wouldn't go amiss either.

Right, but he's talking about rookies fresh from the Academy.
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suoq
post Aug 31 2011, 07:27 PM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 31 2011, 01:07 PM) *
I mean, hell, I can typically spot a police officer even off-duty. It's the eyes, hands, and walk. Very distinctive.

That sounds remarkably like "gaydar". How do you know the people you don't think are officers aren't officers?


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CanRay
post Aug 31 2011, 07:36 PM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 31 2011, 02:07 PM) *
I mean, hell, I can typically spot a police officer even off-duty. It's the eyes, hands, and walk. Very distinctive.
QUOTE (suoq @ Aug 31 2011, 02:27 PM) *
That sounds remarkably like "gaydar". How do you know the people you don't think are officers aren't officers?
Same way you can tell someone that's been in combat opposed to someone that hasn't if you know what to look for.

Gaydar doesn't work because there's so many different types of "Homosexuality", just like any other society. A Police Officer (And I'm talking city cops here, I don't have the experience to spot a country officer) that's been on patrol likely has had to deal with a lot of the same issues, and will have ingrained instincts that you can watch for if you know how.

Again: Eyes, hands, walk. That said, I've been mistaken for military (REMF) a few times because of the way I move, so false positives are certainly possible. And if you know about those motions, you can train yourself not to be obvious about them the same way a professional gambler hides their "Tells".
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