At first, I didn't have a problem with the idea of technomancers, but the more I read and think about them, the less I like them. First, I don't think they add anything worthwhile to the game. In a setting without magic, where TMs would be the wizard-analogue, sure, I could see that; but in Shadowrun I just think they're stepping on the toes of two other archetypes (magicians and hackers) without bringing anything really distinctive to the table. Second, I think they violate, or at least erode, one of the core conceits of the Sixth World, the idea that tech is tech and magic is magic and ne'er the twain shall meet.

Overall, I just think the whole technomancer idea is a bad one from the word go, at least in Shadowrun. What does Dumpshock think?

My group treated the technomancers sort of like adepts except instead of magic they reprogrammed their brains to do stuff they normally couldn't. It went nicely and kept with the idea of them being biological computers and not magical but an AI experiment. Required a lot of rewriting as some Echoes became powers for them to have from the get go. Made it so their biological node was hackable but instead of a Hacker being able to actually get into it he could only crash it causing a load of pain for the TM and for them to temporarily lose their powers until they "rebooted." They could still interact with technology but they were less magical hacker. For example one of the powers we wrote for them was being able to disguise themselves or something small they were holding so they appeared however they wanted on any sensor /AR without needing to hack/edit it. In a world like SR with just about everyone using AR it was pretty nice.

This came from our gripe that TMs were really only good at one thing and that one thing meant we couldn't go on missions that took them out of that element because they would immediately become a lot less useful. Everyone had a strong secondary skill set except the techno.

I really don't see the gripe against them.
A techno is able to bring a much, much different flavour to his schtick than a hacker is. And really, a technomancer is not a mage. He doesn't do magic. He can't even influence the world beyond electronic devices, short of some hefty Echoes. Or through rigging, of course.

Also, a techno can have plenty room for a secondary skillset with mediocre dicepools. Just keep to the 'mental' skills for them. You'll want the attributes anyway. Also, with the way Command works, not to mention Machine sprites, you don't so much need a secondary skillset. You get drones to work those, and can have the sprite's Diagnostics help out yourself and teammates substantially. A rating 6 sprite will on average add 4 dice to someone's use of any electronic device. Apply that to, say, a smartgun and you're golden. If you take up a few ranks in Pistols, you could even make a good shot without having inane ammounts of Agility.

To me it's no different from having aspected magicians or aspected background count.

My main annoyance is that they're defined as rare and desirable commodities by corporations. It's like having a prince or princess in a fantasy RPG. You end up a with choice of treating them like a special snowflake or, for some unexplained reason, not treating them like a special snowflake.

They're Otaku 2.0. Period.

And I think Metaplot is going to make a big deal of what's going on with them, as Netcat's morning sickness just might prove...

So are mages.
And really, so are the guys running around with dicepools in their 20s to shoot stuff, talk to people, etc.

Shadowrunners good enough to live past a couple of succesful runs are a rare and valuable commodity by definition.

What, 50% die on their first run? 90% within the first year? IIRC, at least.

In my games, likely as well. It's not just die, but captured, too, that puts a krinkle in the runner's rep. My players have been successful in surviving the first runs, but that is only because I send them after low-rank opposition at first. No AAA, or their subsidiaries, usually, but instead gangs, and mall break-ins. Maybe an inspection job.
Sadly, the mall break-in ended in failure because no one turned off their commlinks. And even said they have them in active or passive mode. Led to the drone being hacked, and the police called. A failed (secret) edge test brought a patrol Mage, which managed to corner the team's mage (Yes, he was less powerful then the PC), and forced the PC to run.

I was always a fan of Rob Boyle's theory: that the rising mana levels interacted with technology and created something the world hadn't seen before.

Otaku were UGE, technomancers were goblinization, and that left whatever SURGE might be. If that's ever followed up on.

I realize that I'm in the minority on that though.

What about Protosapient DIs and Emergent animals?

Technomancers don't do magic, period.

Some of their abilities look like magic from an OT point of view, but inside the universe these clearly are non-magical and the technobabble about "bioelectric fields" et al. is a perfectly good explanation.

Where exactly does it say magic and machine will never mix? They may not get along well, but they are able to work together. A mechanic can use magic and AR to help his repair efforts, for instance. Magic and medical technology can get along, as well, if only because the basics of magical healing can only be used once. The Magic Fingers spell speciically says that as long as you can see the area in general, you can make the small movements happen even if observing the specifics through only technological sensors.

Significantly advanced and accelerated evolution indistinguishable from magic?

Can't manipulate mana, works without mana. That's quite distinguishing if you ask me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

However, it seems to work rather well without electronics, if two technomancers are within reach of each other. Sounds like limited telepathy to me.

...

...

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DAMN YOU BRAIN!!!

Eehrm.
Nerves work in part by passing an electric current along them.
The brain is nothing but a cluster of nerves.
The body has its own bioelectric field.

How is this functioning without electronics? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Hardware, software, wetware.

At no point does magic interact directly with technology. The adept mechanic? His magic makes him supernaturally skilled, but it doesn't do the work for him. Magical healing? It heals the injured regardless of whether or not mundane healing is applied. The two never interact. Magic Fingers? Doesn't do anything you couldn't do with your own fingers. Telekinesis is telekinesis, whether it's juggling cars or pressing buttons.

Non-organic, electronic devides then

If anyone noticed the "optional rules" in Unwired for technomancers, I like to think that in the canon that's what Technos can do (better Attack protection, difficult to analyze, immune to scanning/nuke/defusing/crashing, unbreakable encryption, and superior trace) making it perfectly reasonable to be both rare and extremely sought after. Of course I also recognize putting that in game is grossly overpowered (unless the TM quality is boosted up to 20 BP or more)

Did you remember to carry the "Fear" and Divide by "Hung up on lamp posts" in that calculation?

HAR!

Alternatively, you can tie 'im up, and leave him in the dessert with no electronics for comfort.

Yeah, but it's hard to find a desert in Seattle.