My definition of evil is anyone who is willing to harm innocents to achieve their goals, ergo insect spirits are defiantly evil.

Then you default to the rules for any creature that has abilities.

Here's the stack:

1) Spirit has abilities.
2) Spirit has Inhabitation.
3) Depending on the merge, spirit loses Inhabitation and gains Materialization, or gains a number of other Powers. Also depending on merge, spirit can gain powers of Host.

Nowhere in that lineup does it say that the Spirit loses all other Powers. The only two Powers specifically stated that they can lose are Astral Form and Inhabitation.

Even if they don't understand the concept of "innocent?" Also, did you mean "defiantly" or "definitely?" Because I'm pretty sure the bugs aren't sticking it to their parents by saying, "Look how bad I am!"

Even if they don't quite so much see those people as persons at all?

Is the anteater evil for killing innnocent termites for food? Are you evil because you squashed that fly? Or for killing that cow, to wrap yourself in its skin? How's about the ichneumon, for injecting their eggs into poor innocent ladybugs, who in turn subsist off a strictly carniverous diet?

It's all biology, even if it's alien.

Eh there's no detect evil spell so it's kind of irrelevant at least from an in world standpoint. They're hostile to metahuman life, that's enough.

The one thing I took from my philosophy studies at uni was that evil (and good) is a theological concept. I naively argued against this and lost resoundly. Essentially, you need a god or something in a god-like position to decree right and wrong in order to determine any event or subject as good or evil. Therefore it's all subjective and pointless.

Unless there is a God and He does have a moral standard, then it's objective. But again, that is away from the purview of these forums. Back to Bug Spirits.

Haha, oh wow. Ethics does not depend on existence of God - it's a social compact like everything else.

If I were to worship the queen, would this make her a god? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

So...


Insect spirits are going to keep their powers and skills in these merges, right?

Anyone agree, want to refute, talk about stuff other than this?

Yes, they keep their powers... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That's what I've said for two pages now.

Well that and this isn't the correct forum for a morality discussion - especially not in a game that says "I dunn' caer" to morality.

No no no, you've missed the point. There doesn't have to be a literal god to decree something as evil, just something in the role of a god. A nation with a legal system does that, as does any individual who has a unique set of criteria for personally defining what is evil and what is not. Whether the criteria have been handed down by a deity in a miracle or spray-painted on a school wall by a twelve-year-old is immaterial to the assertion.

Experience is the real set of criteria. Murder hurts society, as we found out after trying it - so we outlaw murder and consider it evil. That's all there is to it.
Take social insects - do they need "something in the role of a god" to organize their hives?

They actually do - it's called instinct. They are driven by instinct and communicate through pherimones and do both much more efficiently than Man. But we make pizza.

We should genegeneer ants and wasps to make pizza-hives.

Genegeneered Italian honey bees to become Italian pizza sauce bees.

Edit: Oh man. So an Insect hive comes to Seattle and starts their whole Inhabitation shtick, right? Well, through legwork and digging it appears they only use brain-dead or terminally ill hosts and they are planning on opening a Pizzeria for those less fortunate.

Chimeric Ability - Venom (Pizza Sauce, Power 1)

"What? That's not venom!"
"You eat enough of it, it'll kill you!"

Oh, so instinct is an invisible omnipotent omniscient benevolent power? Well the more you know.

Cool... Nice to know... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

I have a question or 2 as well since I cannot seem to find it anywhere

I am working to create a Group of Free Spirit Insects (ya you can probably guess) now if they inhabit a body that has augmentations (Cyber / Bio / Gene ect.)

1) is their Magic attribute affected by the hosts essence level
2) Can they use the augments aas if they were their own

I dunno if a Free Insect is possible, but the rules for implants and Inhabitation are in Street Magic, where it discusses the various Merges. The short answers are 'no, Essence doesn't affect them' and 'yes, if they get the hybrid merge'.

not for a PC no its not
this is a GM Toy

and by definition Mantids are Free Insect's .... my question directly revolves around the females of the breed (all flesh forms)

guess I should have specified I was creating a group of the Desolation Angels

information on these Chica's is few and far between

Also what about Adepts being inhabited

No, not even in a hybrid merge. Remember, your special attributes replace the special attributes of your host. If your host had enough 'ware to drop him to 0.01 Essence and you had a F5 spirit Inhabit him, the new entity would now have all the 'ware and 5 Essence.

Technically, by RAW, it is not stated at all though. The actual facts for this are listed in the Possession sidebar on page 102 about Living Vessels. Since Possession and Inhabitation are so often mentioned together elsewhere in the rules, however, it is logical to assume the interaction of special attributes works the same for both as well, otherwise as soon as an inhabitation spirit inhabits a vessel it can no longer access its Magic, Edge, or Initiative.

… That's what I said. In a hybrid, you get their implants. Different question. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)