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Seriously Mike
post Oct 17 2011, 11:57 AM
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Poke, poke, jiggle, jiggle, here it goes. He's more combat-oriented now, but I haven't spent all the free Knowledge Skill points (9 points to spend on Japan-centric topics like Bushido, knowledge of Japanese society and culture) and I'm thinking about ditching Dodge (that's 16 points in a skill I most probably won't use, considering that in melee I can either parry attacks with my katana or block them in HtH, and if someone shoots me, I can put ten points of those 16 in Athletics group and just backflip out of the way like a proper ninja).
Also, Chummer counts Improved Reflexes differently than they're given in SR4. Have they been made cheaper in SR4A?

Name: Masaru Shiba
Street Name: Nicks
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Human Male Age 26
Height 5'11" Weight 163 lbs
Composure: 6
Judge Intentions: 7
Lift/Carry: 5 (30 kg/20 kg)
Memory: 6
Nuyen: 1623

Attributes:
[ Spoiler ]


Skills:
[ Spoiler ]


Qualities:
[ Spoiler ]


Powers:
[ Spoiler ]


Equipment:
[ Spoiler ]
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UmaroVI
post Oct 17 2011, 01:44 PM
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Hey, to answer your question about the Ghost: the idea is that you don't carry all your weapons all the time. If you're storming a compound, you probably pack the machine gun, the grenade launching pistol, and the Ruger Thunderbolt. If you're going to meet the Johnson in a theme bar, you probably pack the pistols/tasers, and the grenade launcher-pistol. If you're trying to slip past good security that plans to pat you down, you maybe just bring the taser, or bring the taser and the holdout pistol, et cetera.
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Seriously Mike
post Oct 17 2011, 02:25 PM
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Oh. Makes sense, then. Still, I'd ditch the Fubuki and get something cheaper instead.
And check the equipment on my Adept, I think I love the Elan. It's a peashooter, but it's an invisible peashooter. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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squee_nabob
post Oct 17 2011, 09:52 PM
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It's only invisible to MAD, cyberware scanners see it just fine
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UmaroVI
post Oct 17 2011, 11:22 PM
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In fairness, Cyberware scanners make the game into Magicrun, and there's nothing you can do about that but be a magician.
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Seriously Mike
post Oct 18 2011, 07:57 AM
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QUOTE (squee_nabob @ Oct 17 2011, 11:52 PM) *
It's only invisible to MAD, cyberware scanners see it just fine

Who's going to suspect an adept with Darrow's Syndrome (or, crunch-wise, Sensitive System) of having any cyberware on him?

Also, what would be better: Stealth group at 2 or Negotiation at 3 and Etiquette at 2? Bodyguards usually don't need stealth and that's exactly what my character is.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Oct 18 2011, 02:17 PM
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QUOTE (Seriously Mike @ Oct 18 2011, 01:57 AM) *
Who's going to suspect an adept with Darrow's Syndrome (or, crunch-wise, Sensitive System) of having any cyberware on him?


Has nothing to do with that. It has to do with the Scanner being installed in the door that the Adept just walked through. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Irion
post Oct 18 2011, 02:32 PM
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@Seriously Mike
QUOTE
Who's going to suspect an adept with Darrow's Syndrome (or, crunch-wise, Sensitive System) of having any cyberware on him?

If the opposition has your medical file dating back to your childhood, you are fucked anyway.

One remark on cyberwarescanners:
They suck hard.
They are unable to find bioware and it is unlikely for them to find beta or even delta ware.
Considering the fact, that you also need net hits for information...
They only cause problems for the "I have 7 cyber implants from the start and half is illegal" kind of characters.
Very much like Wards pose the same problem for their magic equivalent.
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Seriously Mike
post Oct 18 2011, 03:16 PM
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QUOTE (Irion @ Oct 18 2011, 04:32 PM) *
@Seriously Mike
They only cause problems for the "I have 7 cyber implants from the start and half is illegal" kind of characters.

How do I hide illegal implants from a scanner? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Oct 18 2011, 03:30 PM
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QUOTE (Seriously Mike @ Oct 18 2011, 08:16 AM) *
How do I hide illegal implants from a scanner? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)


Get them in Delta Grade. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Seriously Mike
post Oct 18 2011, 03:53 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 18 2011, 05:30 PM) *
Get them in Delta Grade. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Delta spurs on a starting character? Umadbrov?
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Oct 18 2011, 04:50 PM
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QUOTE (Seriously Mike @ Oct 18 2011, 09:53 AM) *
Delta spurs on a starting character? Umadbrov?


Admittedly hard (Impossible) to get at chargen, yes. Alpha Grade imposes a Threshold 2 for Scanners, so that is a place to start. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Seriously Mike
post Oct 18 2011, 06:07 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 18 2011, 06:50 PM) *
Admittedly hard (Impossible) to get at chargen, yes. Alpha Grade imposes a Threshold 2 for Scanners, so that is a place to start. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

*makes funny noises trying to pick up the corebook off the floor* Damn. And they get +2 dice for all the shit Olga has installed. That's enough potential hits to figure out that my cyberarms are armored Evo heavy duty models with upgraded myostrands, actuators and frames, and... oh shit. I still can spend one BP to upgrade both spurs to Alpha for 3600 nuyen, though.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Oct 18 2011, 06:25 PM
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QUOTE (Seriously Mike @ Oct 18 2011, 11:07 AM) *
*makes funny noises trying to pick up the corebook off the floor* Damn. And they get +2 dice for all the shit Olga has installed. That's enough potential hits to figure out that my cyberarms are armored Evo heavy duty models with upgraded myostrands, actuators and frames, and... oh shit. I still can spend one BP to upgrade both spurs to Alpha for 3600 nuyen, though.


Yep, the more you have, the harder it is. Though even a Rating 6 Scanner will only roll 9 Dice (Assuming you have 6+ Systems installed). Which is a good incentive to get to Delta Grade when you can (Threshold 5+). But Your typical Scanners are going to be R3-R4 Devices. So Alpha is not too horrrible. And Beta will keep you mostly from being detected. Unfortunately, your non-cyber weapons are still detected on a Threshold 1.
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Seriously Mike
post Oct 18 2011, 07:32 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 18 2011, 08:25 PM) *
Unfortunately, your non-cyber weapons are still detected on a Threshold 1.
Unless the mooks inside whatever the scanner is protecting are packing shotguns, that's not a problem. Take the first one down with fists or blades, pick up his toy, showtime.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Oct 18 2011, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE (Seriously Mike @ Oct 18 2011, 01:32 PM) *
Unless the mooks inside whatever the scanner is protecting are packing shotguns, that's not a problem. Take the first one down with fists or blades, pick up his toy, showtime.


True...
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Seriously Mike
post Oct 18 2011, 08:40 PM
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However, the physad still has a problem. 15 dice with a katana can produce enough hits to seriously wound anything, be it a mook, a paracritter or a materialized spirit, but without it... uh oh. Half the dice go out.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Oct 18 2011, 09:26 PM
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QUOTE (Seriously Mike @ Oct 18 2011, 01:40 PM) *
However, the physad still has a problem. 15 dice with a katana can produce enough hits to seriously wound anything, be it a mook, a paracritter or a materialized spirit, but without it... uh oh. Half the dice go out.


Which is why, if you are worried about losing it (The Katana), and if you are going Melee, and you are a Physad, you do not use a weapon. You go Unarmed. Katana is Str/2+3, AP -1 Yes?

Unarmed Combat with Killing Hands, Critical Strike 3 and Penetrating Strike 1 (1.5 PP Total) gives the same base stat as a Katana, of Str/2+3, AP -1.
And you can raise that even more with Martial Arts and other Unarmed Adept abilities. In fact, for a half point more, your AP would be AP -3.

*shrug* Lots of choices... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Seriously Mike
post Oct 18 2011, 10:02 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 18 2011, 11:26 PM) *
Which is why, if you are worried about losing it (The Katana), and if you are going Melee, and you are a Physad, you do not use a weapon. You go Unarmed. Katana is Str/2+3, AP -1 Yes?

No. The character is a bodyguard, and a Japanese one at that. As a physad, he's more of a samurai than a kung fu master. Apart from using a katana to dispatch magical dangers, he's also a decent shooter. As for unarmed combat, I kinda overlooked that and I'd be scrambling for points to do anything about it.

Also, Katana has reach, as a sword. That's one more dice against people having smaller toys.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Oct 19 2011, 02:04 PM
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QUOTE (Seriously Mike @ Oct 18 2011, 03:02 PM) *
No. The character is a bodyguard, and a Japanese one at that. As a physad, he's more of a samurai than a kung fu master. Apart from using a katana to dispatch magical dangers, he's also a decent shooter. As for unarmed combat, I kinda overlooked that and I'd be scrambling for points to do anything about it.

Also, Katana has reach, as a sword. That's one more dice against people having smaller toys.


Gotcha, and very true, though the Penetrating Strike is better AP. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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UmaroVI
post Oct 19 2011, 05:16 PM
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This is ultimately the core problem with a lot of melee weapons in Shadowrun.

In the grim darkness of the cyberpunk future, why do people use melee weapons instead of guns? For some melee weapons, there's an answer - for unarmed combat, it's impossible to "disarm" you. Spurs and other cyber-implant weaponry, similarly (and they don't use Exotic like cyberguns). But a katana? The core problem with katanas is that they are just as hard to hide as an assault rifle and less good than an assault rifle.

Now, one sensible way to go is to pick Unarmed, and then carry shock gloves too. This is a pretty reasonable option - while you are shooting people, you can still get Unarmed to melee defense, and the grim darkness of the cyberpunk future is full of people that really desperately want to melee you. You also get to Subdue people and can't be fully disarmed, which is handy.

Another way to go is to Blades, and use spurs. Spurs are hideable, do great damage, use Blades, and can even be weapon foci. While you have the Blades skill to use your spurs, you also use bayonets on your guns (so you can apply Blades to melee defense while shooting). And hey, it can't hurt you to carry a vibro blade (or a katana or no-dachi if you really love GRORIOUS NIPPON that much), even if you frequently check it at the door.

A third way to go is all-out melee specialist, which looks similar to one of the above two except that you're playing in a game that at the very least allows Martial Arts, because they you can use Two-Weapon Style to justify your existence. Regardless of how silly melee combat generally is in the dark eighties future, there are plenty of monsters that are really good at melee, and the ability of a TWS character to maintain solid offense and defense simultaneously against melee is a worthwhile schtick. Martial arts (especially combined with either Adept powers and 'ware, or a Mystic Adept) also allows you to hand out enough damage for people to care about. Without martial arts, this winds up being a very sad way to go and you'll wind up crying yourself to sleep unless the rest of the group is playing similarly lower-powered characters, or you are the only person trying to be good at fighting and the GM dials the challenges down to what you can handle.
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Seriously Mike
post Oct 19 2011, 07:09 PM
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Ah hell. The adept is pretty much pink mohawk, style over substance, while Olga/Kestrel is more toned down and still effective. However, when you have an adept with a spirit-killing katana AND knowledge which end of the gun to point at other enemies, things look pretty good and should get better with a couple of well-spent Karma points. That and some people will be VERY interested in that 30K nuyen weapon focus, more than, let's say, a pimped-out sniper rifle they can source from elsewhere.

Seriously, the more I look at combat-oriented adepts, the shittier they seem.
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Ryu
post Oct 19 2011, 07:23 PM
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QUOTE (Seriously Mike @ Oct 19 2011, 09:09 PM) *
Ah hell. The adept is pretty much pink mohawk, style over substance, while Olga/Kestrel is more toned down and still effective. However, when you have an adept with a spirit-killing katana AND knowledge which end of the gun to point at other enemies, things look pretty good and should get better with a couple of well-spent Karma points. That and some people will be VERY interested in that 30K nuyen weapon focus, more than, let's say, a pimped-out sniper rifle they can source from elsewhere.

Seriously, the more I look at combat-oriented adepts, the shittier they seem.

You should consider the long-term potential of augmented adepts. Load up on essential bioware. Disregard the astral potential, put the focus on powers that are not duplicated by ware.

Or start mundane and get Latent Awakening. Risk: You might end up as a magician.
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UmaroVI
post Oct 19 2011, 07:26 PM
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Pretty much, yeah. Unaugmented adepts are just bad at life in general. Combat-oriented augmented adepts are giving up a lot of breadth for a little bit more specialization than mundanes.
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Seriously Mike
post Oct 20 2011, 08:37 AM
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*sigh* I will never get used to augmented Adepts.
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