But, SR4A neither has facings nor particularly clear field-of-view rules, nor even visual focus; I think it's basically assumed the cameras have something approaching 180°. So it's not a practical matter, though it would be important theoretically.

To become wiser, like Odin.

A non-installed cybereye IS just a camera, more or less.

I think there is precedent for a cybereye continuing to work without a living host - I seem to remember one Shadowrun published adventure revolving around recovering a cybereye from a dead body that, unknown to the people that killed him, was set in "record" mode at the time and kept filming them after he was dead.

One of my pet peeves, though is that there isn't a whole lot of reason to USE most cyberware, rather than their non-implanted Gear counterparts. Aside from "they can't easily take it away from me", the external equipment works just as well if not better. There are a tiny amount of implants that actually provide a benefit that gear can't do. I'd like to see implants have a definite edge over external gear, if nothing else because it's more "cyberpunk" to me.


-k

If it makes you feel better, this is also a pet peev of no small amount of writers. I know it really bothers Critias and I think Mr. Goodman mentioned that it got under his skin too. I think it's something that's in the pipeline but WAY down the road. In any event, having things like bonuses to Perception for cybereyes and bonuses to Initiative for datajacks are some of the most common house rules I've seen.

Karma, I never count any of that 'implied canon' crap; the writers just make stuff up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But my point is merely that it's not in the rules, not that it's *impossible* (again, assuming there's a battery in the thing).

It's a tough balance between making cyber 'relatively better', and making gear plausible. It didn't make sense when there was a cyber-radar and no gear radar; that's just not logical. It *does* make sense for there to be cyber DNI and no gear DNI—but that happened anyway for other reasons. I don't think we'll ever see a gear (external device) item that gives you more meat IPs, for example, but many (the majority of?) cyber implants are a different category: things that started as gear and got implanted.

Well, Cram (or Jazz, or Kamikaze, or K10) in a Popper... There is your external device giving Extra Meat IP's. Been in the game quite a while, too... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

No, drugs are internal. I specifically considered that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) That's why I said '(external device)' so clearly for you.

And yet a Popper is an External Device. I hold it in my hand. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
The effects of the drug may happen on the inside, but so what. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

… So that's the whole point. The drug is what does it.

But drugs have an internal effect outside of their benefits. If you fail an addiction roll, you get a Negative Quality. Fail it enough times and you lose Essence. They also have a limited scope. It's not like carrying around a popper gives you extra IPs like a sustaining focus...

Oh yeah. Sustaining focus. But that's apples and oranges.

Again, the focus doesn't do anything. The spell does it, and that's again not an external device. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Anyway, it was an example.

Yerameyahu, the reason not to just have a camera and to stick uninstalled cybereyes into your sockets is simple: it's freakin' cool! Yes, it costs more for no extra benefit... but then I can say, "Look what I can do 'cause I'm a technomancer! Can you do this? NooOOOooo! Nyah! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) " Or, if someone were to say something like, "If only you could see it the way I see it..." Gouge out his cybereyes, gouge out my meat ones, stick in his hardware, hack into it and voila. "Oh, look, I do see it through your eyes and it's exactly the same!"

you can do it whitout beeing a technomancer.
everybody can do it. last week i was thinking about a ghoul using camera googles, a comlink and trodes to see the real world without losing is magic point because of essence loss with cybereyes.

He's a ghoul. That Essence loss is temporary.

So, just so I understand this thread correctly, the point is that Essence shouldn't be a thing in Shadowrun, right? I mean, isn't the idea of the thread that instead of installing cyberware, people can just remove their arms or eyes or whatever and replace them with cyberware; onlyinstead of "installing" it, just have the cyberware work off of wireless?

Is that it? Do people just not like the concept of Essence in the game?

AFB right now, but I think that ghouls don't have drain essence.

ghoul don't have essence drain or essence loss, but they are blind. And they can change their blind eyes with brand new cybereyes, but they loose essence in doing that. And if you loose essence, you loose magic, so a ghoul could have the choice of rigging a camera to "see".

But a ghoul will never be a technomancer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I guess I was thinking of vampires or something.

That doesn't answer my question, though. Is the point of this thread that people think Essence shouldn't be part of the game?

Not from my perspective. I absolutely love the Essence mechanic. I think it is great.
What I have issues with is powers like Essence Drain. Absolutely hate that power. Of course, when you have a drawback of Essence Bleed (Essence Loss?), you need to balance that out. But, in the end, Essence Drain has caused more problems than it has fixed, in my opinion.

@Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Well, Shadowrun Vampires are not meant to be PCs.
With the dataprocessing and scanning technology available in Shadowrun, it should not be a problem to pinpoint a vampire. (And taking a look at the scanners, it is not)
And with the kind of infrastructure a hefty response would seem logical....

So vampirers end up to be munchkins choice, which will die if the GM really gives life to the world, instead of just railroading the plot.

Indeed...
We have yet to allow Infected as Player Characters at our table, though I have come up with an interesting Loup-Garou Vitke. I will likely never get to play him, though.

Besides, if you want to play a Vampire, NWOD Requiem is a better choice, at least in my opinion.

Agreed.

No, Fortinbras. The thread is about if technomancers can loophole their way out of essence loss with a couple of cyberware items. Not all of them qualify but I thought cybereyes might.

Ah, so the Essence mechanic shouldn't be applied to cybereyes.
To what should the Essence mechanic apply, as it no longer applies to cybereyes, and by default, arms, legs, torsos, or ears?

@Fortinbras
Yeah, thats the thing I do not get either...

There was the same shit with nanohives outside of once body...