So I ran my first game of 4th ed. yesterday. Took a little time to get into a grove with it, but fun was had by all. I did run into an unexpected issues with the dice rolling mechanics. If modifiers eliminate your dice pool, can you do...nothing?

Both an NPC and a player wound up having this happen. It was a stuffy shack run and goo's and powders were flying. Between that, damage penalties and other stuff they ran out of dice to roll. I imagine the rule would be that they simply can't shoot or an automatic failer. But one guy was right in front of the player and if I am interpreting this right he could NOT do anything about it. Even though his gun was in his hand. (I just quick ruled it that you can never roll less then 1) I am wondering if I overlooked a rule governing this or if I just missed the point. I'm not sure I like the idea of a player not having any options.

So if anybody could let me know what the official rule on this is, it would be appreciated.

They both fail or begin using edge points to get a chance to roll more dice.

If you're too wounded, drugged, stunned, and confused to shoot the gun at something… you can't, without a Longshot (Edge). That's more or less by design.

Plus laser sights/smartgun systemsm buitlin vision-enhancements and Aiming are options to gain some dice. If you're not skilled enough to offset a few penalties, pack a gun that is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Here's the actual rule, along with its location in the book, so you can read it for yourself, in context, rather than taking our word for it:

I'm failry certain that if your modifiers get you down to 0 dice, there is only one option. RUN!

Even if you house rule it that you get one dice, one dice isn't going to do much. (Except in the rare case where one success is all thats required. But off the top of my head, I can only think of maybe Magicians being that lucky...even then you would only have a 33% chance) At this point a character really should be looking to other options rather than just shooting point blank and hoping to hit someone.

And you have a high chance of critical glitch. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I think this has happened once or twice in the game I'm playing in, but I'm not sure if it's happened in the games I run yet.

Thanks folks. Damned thing is I read that page looking for what was supposed to happen. I just didn't read all the way down. So good to know and appreciate you all for pointing that out. I just didn't like saying "you cant do it" to a player. I have no problem making it nigh impossible, just not 'no'. You can still get lucky with 1 die. But the edge thing works well. I will play it by ear if it happens again.

Actually the Edge thing does not work well. With 1-7 dice (without exploding sixes) your chance of succeeding is not very high especially with Edge 1-3. If you have a high Edge character he would be a lot better off to have used his Edge before to avoid large penalties.

But again... Long Shot Tests Mimic this well... The character got "Lucky" if he succeeds at all... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Besides, if you are reduced to a negative dice pool greater than your Edge, you are better off with the Long Shot Test. I have seen that happen on Occasaion.

Another question then. How often do you reset edge? The book says at the beginning of each session. I feel that is a little to...easy? Frequent? I was originally going to go between adventures. But I am now thinking of treating them like Void points in L5R. Get some good sleep, and get your Edge back. Stay awake to long, your "losing your edge". Not sure how that would work the Long Haul yet. And of course there is the way of getting a point here and there for personal accomplishments. I'm just wondering what some of you GM found most effective.

Make your own luck. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

I do it each session, but if there was a reason not have it happen that way I'd approach it logically. The book is pretty clear in saying find something and settle on it, and while they recommend each session obviously your mileage will vary right? Whatever you settle on discuss it with your players, get their input then make a ruling on the field.

He did. He dropped the build points on the Edge! (Pedantic I know, but it was there and well what's a knife fight among friendlies right?)

Actually, I was thinking of excessive amounts of high explosives, but that works too.

Obviously, if you like requiring longshot tests with edge, keep doing that. But a possible houserule for those very low tests where there is still some probability of success is to allow the player to roll a single dice and only count 6 as a success. The chance of one hit is then reduced to 17%. Also, you can increase the number that counts as a glitch-

Dice Pool of 0- Roll 1, only 6 counts as success
Dice Pool of -1- Roll 1, only 6 counts as success, 1 and 2 count as glitch
Dice Pool of -2- Roll 1, only 6 for success, 1-3 glitch
Dice Pool of -3- Roll 1, only 6 for success, 1-4 glitch
Dice Pool of -4- Roll 1, only 6 for success, 1-5 glitch
Dice Pool of -5- Roll 2, both need to be 6 to count for a single success, glitch on everything else

I have never liked the fact that it simply becomes impossible if you have a negative dice pool, especially on opposed rolls. If you can pull the trigger, there is a chance that you hit the thing you're aiming at, even if you are way more likely to shoot yourself or a teammate, or a valuable piece of equipment or simply miss and end up with a gun that has stovepiped. If you don't think it would work for your game, don't bother.

Agreed... Since my Characters only usually sport 2-3 Edge, I never rely upon it. Make your Own Luck... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Whenever it happens that i have to throw 2 dice i get this strange sensation that the grim reaper is breathing down my neck with his sickle readied and freshly sharpened.
Especially when its an edge or damage resistance test.

The book assumes that you do one mission per gaming session. Generally speaking you should get edge back at the end of a run. Alternatively if you have a run that will encompass several nights of playing, you can find the major high points in the campaign and reset edge after those. This would be where the PCs have just taken out a mini-boss, or acomplished a major goal, or perhaps had an exceptionally challenging experience. Even then I might wait to give them the edge back at the beginning of the next gaming session.

The problem with the L5R concept is that players will tend to do an encounter, and if something can wait 8 hours, get some sleep and get their edge back before the next encounter. Potentially you could get players getting edge back once or twice per session, and that shouldn't happen. Players should get edge back when they have finally accomplished their goals and have taken a fair amount of time off, say a couple of days to a week.

Overall this should be your call as to when they get the edge back. Maybe you plan to have them "ambushed" before they have time to heal from the last run, then you should postpone giving them their edge back, but remember to account for the lack of edge when developing the encounter. Overall, the goal should be to have fun. If having edge reset after every encounter adds more fun to the game for you and your players, you should feel welcomed to do that. If going threw all four of the Dawn of the Artifacts adventures without reseting edge adds to the fun, then go with that (I don't recommend doing that, just going to the other extreme).

The success isn't suppose to be really high. This is a last ditch effort on a Character who has lost all hope in achieving success. The Character has likely had automatic weapons send a dozen or so bullets in his chest, and he is bleeding all over the place. Gasping for what little breath he can muster, he gives it one last shot, in hopes it will succeed when common sense says otherwise. At this point the character has been injured to the point that he shouldn't have a high success of doing anything. As I said before, this is the point the Character should run and cut his losses.

Alternatively this could be where the street medic has to preform surgery on the guy bleeding out. Bullets flying around, and not being trained. Its when your gut tells you that this is something you can't do... but you have to try anyways. The feel here should definetely be that sucess is impossible, but you are going to try anyways on the off chance that maybe...JUST MAYBE... you will pull it off.