I'd like to be a human. It's in Seattle.
I'd like to be avoid being useless in the meat.
I haven't decided if I want to go full vehicle rigger or not.

Help!

How about an adept Biker ? (blades, Knife Throwing, Daredevil on Wheels )
What about a Nartaki ? (2 Hands to steer ,2 more Hands with Katana to slice the enemies)

JahtaHow
Medicineman

If you want to be a good driver in the meat, there won't be enough points for you to buy a rigging kit, and vice versa. Apart from that, you want to be able to hurt people, and that requires some more points.
I built a Wrench Wench that should work as a go-ganger.

Go-Ganger says Bikes to me. If your campain is mostly restricted to the Barrens, Mad-Max-style cars could also work.

What do you mean by "not useless in the meat"? Ground Vehicles + Gunnery + Automotive Mechanics + garage contact can be stapled on most other concepts.

(For an actual build I´d like to hear about BP/karma budgets first.)

Yeah, basically, what do you mean by "a go-ganger?" Specifically, what sort of abilities should you have? What kind of roles do you want to be able to fill? Do you have any particular restrictions aside from being human (not awakened, not emerged, no 'ware, limited gear budget, limited types of gear?)

I like the idea of an agile - fast-moving crotch-rocket rider.

I'm looking for:
Some gang affiliation
Urban experience and contacts
Stealthy and agile both in the flesh and on the bike
Hardware/vehicle repair and mods
Better than average combat ability
Distinct advantage in urban scouting, escapes and chases.

I'm having some trouble with game mechanics.
Since you have to spend 1 complex action a turn just to keep from losing control of your vehicle, I'd need to have at least 2 IPs if not 3-4.
That's either rigger/adept/or cyber/bioware. I just don't know how the NPCs do it.

As Seriously Mike mentioned, I need to choose between either a full on rigger with a bunch of matrix mods or a cybered/adept type who actually drives the thing manually.

If I go with the rigger mods, I may as well ignore my attributes and skills because they'll poof when I'm jumped in.
However, if I go full on rigger mode, I'll be basically useless when I'm not jumped in.

If I go with a buffed up meat body, I'll be missing out on the obvious advantages of the vehicle control rig and matrix interface.
I may as well just be a street sam who happens to own a bike.

I really don't want to default to a drone-rigger concept.

Motorcycles probably always get driven manually at least to some extent. Even if you have one that can steer using matrix controls, shifting your weight around is important to turning at higher speed. That explicitly can't happen if you're in VR, due to the RAS. One could envision particular programming for it, which basically treats your body as a extension of the bike and moves the whole thing (or basically allows an exception to the RAS to let you move), but that second is still part-cyber, part-meat.

Either of the latter allow for the full rules-statted bonus to be applied, it's just different in flavour, really. I just think oif a rigger in the RAS-induced paralysis on top of a bike being not exactly ideal for performance.

Have a courier-style go-ganger with augmentations. Focus on Reaction, Agility and Intuition. Loosing the Control Rig is sad, but an effective Reaction 9 would compensate... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I think you probably want to be an AR Command driver. Take a look at my sig and look at the Mercenary Rigger; he's not precisely what you want but is pretty close and should be modifiable. The core idea is that you get multiple IPs from 'ware, then you use Command rigging from AR to rig.

Going down your checklist, you would probably want to cut back on hacking skills, remove most of the drones, remove Pilot Aircraft, get a bike, decide whether or not you want to use Gunnery (ie, have weapons mounted on your bike) and either cut that or not. Spend the points saved there to pay the being human tax, and to buy Pilot up to 4, specialize it in Bikes, and maybe pay more to have more/better gang contacts - possibly a Group Contact would make sense.

If you drop Gunnery you can make either Pistols or Pilot a 6. If you don't, you may want to drop it to 4 and make one of them a 6 anyways.

Alternate ways to go: Be a street samurai who doesn't suck, staple on Pilot Ground Vehicles (Wheeled) 4 (6) and a motorcycle, and just drive manually. You can easily have 9 reaction, and you can get to 12 if you really want to, which makes you a very good driver.

Be an augmented adept or mystic adept, use Mind over Matter (Logic->Agility) to cover the Logic skills and Agility skills at the same time, get your meatspace IPs, and pump your Pilot skill, then AR command rig. This kind of build tends to get pretty complicated and finicky but is doable.

Toss in appropriate contacts and attitude, and that's basically what a go-ganger is, though.

Fair enough, but there should be a difference between a ganger and a go-ganger.
It's somewhere between a street sam and a rigger. How many flavors of those two archetypes are there?
It's a hybrid and I think it's doable...I just feel like I'm missing something.

Everyone seems to be steering far, far away from having the character be a full-VR rigger. Why is that?

Because passing out and then riding around snoring on a bike is (a) really lame (b) asynergistic with being good at meatspace combat.

I don't see go-gangers as full VR riggers. I couldn't say why (aside from the previously mentioned motorcycle rigging issues) except that it seems to clash with the style. In my mind, a go-ganger is basically like a regular ganger, only with more emphasis on Reaction and Agility and less on Strength and Body. Probably equally comfortable swinging a chain or pipe from the back of the bike as shooting. AR-assisted manual driving seems to fit that better to me. I imagine the gang would have some people in bigger vehicles for various reasons (especially a Barrens Mad Max style go-gang), and those types might be full VR...

I can't speak to its lameness - you turn into a motorcycle - but can't combat be handled fairly well from VR, with vehicle-mounted weapons? A character with full VR capabilities has the option of pulling out and driving manually, while a character without full VR capabilities can only drive manually. Is the improvement in ability not worth the cost of entry, do you think?


If I spent a lot of my time on a motorcycle, driving hard and fast, and someone gave me the ability to become that motorcycle, to feel what it feels, to turn into it, not virtually but for real, and in some cases better than real, I'd take it. But that's as much a product of my bias as your perception of style is to yours. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

With VR, at a certain point it just becomes a remote control motorcycle. Your meat body would become a huge liability.
Why would you bother riding the thing? You'd be safer piloting everything from the matrix on your couch.
I'd like to avoid that route.

It's a huge waste to spend BP on gunnery and firearms and targeting programs.
If I get too invested in either method, it hoses the other.

How do the go-gangs do it? Are they all riggers or wired to the teeth?

"Cool" is subjective, but I think you're missing that you are still sitting on the bike, passed out, and snoring. You can certainly drive the bike well while you are doing that, and there aren't actual penalties, but it "looks silly." You can also put a rigger cocoon in the bike, which you probably want to do. The issue is more "that's not what I think go-gangers should look like."

As for the lack of synergy - I think you are conflating jumped-in versus remote control versus manual with AR versus VR which are not quite the same. If you are a command rigger, you can always command rig from VR if you want to and you get a small bonus for doing so. Jumped-in rigging and manual piloting are asynergistic because you need one set of 'ware for jumped in rigging, and a completely different set for manual piloting. Also, if you already have multiple meatspace IPs - which this character will, because, remember, he wants to be good at fighting while not on his bike - the advantage of using a VR piloting method is diminished, because you don't benefit from the extra IPs.

The nice thing is it's 207x. Go-Gangers can look like they stepped straight out of an episode of Sons of Anarchy or they can look like something from a Gibson novel-or, shockingly I know, both!

Yes, and if someone wanted to play a guy who called himself a go-ganger and rode around strapped into his bike and unconscious, I wouldn't be telling him that he couldn't do that. But he has pretty clearly said he doesn't want to do that.

Right... If you want to fight effectively on foot, then you also want to be a manual/AR pilot unless you have a glut of points (BP or Karma) and money. Otherwise, you're paying for stuff twice. If you already have extra IP and a high Reaction from 'ware (which you will if you want to fight on foot), then use that when you ride the bike as well, don't pay again to get the same benefits a different way. Actually, even if you have a glut of points and money, it's still probably a better plan to spend them diversifying your skillset over buying into two, mutually exclusive, methods of doing the same thing.

For the same reason that a person who wants be a hacker who's awesome in a vehicle should be a VR rigger, a person who wants to fight on foot and be awesome in a vehicle should be a manual/AR rigger. Unless you have a compelling RP/interesting twist/otherwise fun reason to do otherwise, of course.

Clearly the solution is to combine these ideas, and be a motorbiking ganger cyborg who literally is the bike.

You see, he had REALLY good insurance.

(restricted gear: Bike, mod it with a cyborg adaptation at avail18/+250,000nuyen, for the price listed in arsenal, get an epic advanced lifestyle that you can bill your medical fees to, and spend about 12bp on a contact to handle the surgery - if your gm doesn't let you start with your ware installed, like every god damn samurai is able to. Note: A CCU isn't deltaware, but acquired as an accessory to a vehicle mod with price and availability in arsenal. And 20 hits on medicine to install, but whatever.)

Just pretend you're playing in a corny 80's/90's action movie, like Steel.

As opposed to how little of a liability it is if you're manually riding the bike, of course. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Seriously, if your physical presence is a problem, cutting out VR isn't the answer!


I would definitely ask that question, but I suspect it's probably connected to the character's history. I mean, he'd be safer not being a go-ganger, if you follow that path of logic. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


A lot of people have mentioned this aspect of it - having to buy things twice - but how much is there, really? Initiative boosters, the Gunnery skill, what else?


Do you move around a lot on your motorcycle? Or do you keep yourself low to the frame, largely stationary, and only make large muscle group movements to do things like lean? Because I've got to tell you, when you're on a bike at speed, you do a pretty good imitation of someone who is just strapped to the thing.


That definitely seems to be a major influence.


I'm not conflating the two - I promise you, whatever else might be true, I have a pretty good grasp on the difference between AR and VR (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) - I just don't see that the investment in the ability to be a good VR pilot is so expensive that it outweighs the benefits of being a good VR pilot.


That's the only good reason I've heard thus far.

You rang?

That depends entirely on how you want to control your bike. There are three methods, and I STRONGLY suggest reading up on them in detail.

1) Command.
2) Manual
3) Jump-in.
4) Let The Pilot Do Its Thing.

A: Command is hella cheap, and good, and uses the skills you already have. IE: command+pilot, command+ gunnery.
B: Manual is not as bad as it sounds. It uses physical IPs, which means samurais have great crossover. Make no mistake, its easy to get a bunch of dice pool modifier while jump-in rigging. But - and this is a big but - your response very very rarely goes over 6, and it won't really go above 5 at the start. A samurai, other other hand, uses his Reaction to drive - and that is easy to boost. If you have move-by-wire, you are a fantastic driver. Period.
C: Dependent more on Hardware and Skill than programs. Often a good option to have, because it uses your same skills(pilot/gunnery/dodge/infiltration/perception), and some dice pool bonuses(+2 control rig +2 hotsim being the most common), but where it falls short is if you have a bad Response(yes, on the drone, NOT your commlink) or Sensor on the drone you are jumping into - and making sure your toys have decent stats to backup your skills is also more expensive. This can be mitigated to some extent by choosing the right model cars/drones (military/security classifications give increased device ratings)
D: The pilot is not useless. Even if its not directly driving, it is still useful, much like a robot AI car. It can make sensor tests, find routes, or even potentially shoot people while the driver drives. The biggest thing it can do, and I'm surprised that people don't use this more often, is spend the obligatory action to control the vehicle, freeing its driver up to do something else. Smartcars are useful. Having it be fully independent, however, is an expensive proposition. Pilots are expensive, response is expensive, system/firewall is expensive, autosofts are mandatory for autonomous operation, and also expensive. If you have wi-fi, you also want firewall, encryption, analze and otehr defenses. More cost.


To give you an example of cost: Look at 4a 330, street gear, and look at the cost for Pilots, Autosofts, Programs and the max rating you can start with. (also consider restricted gear).
Also the hardware upgrade table on 222.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) I'm having the weirdest conversations today.