Exactly. The name is bad (in the sense of incorrect *and* misleading), but there's nothing wrong with abstractly high RoF guns… if that's what people want. They're not incompatible with reality.

No excuse for duplicating errors from previous editions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Keep the mod, fix the name.

Well, the smoking barrel alone should be a big enough hint that maybe it's time to pull out a different weapon before barrel droop happens. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Unless the name is copyrighted and was given by marketing because they have no idea what they're doing, but knows what sells well.

I mean, they're selling to the same audience that Yuri Orlov is: "I want the gun from Rambo." "Which one, there were three." "I've only seen the first one." "The M-60, no problem."

Later on: "DIE BY THE GUN OF RAMBO!!!"

Hehe, nothing wrong with that. At some point, a gun is just a gun; might as well get one you like. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

From a webcomic series: Assassin to Grandmotherly Lady: "Have you ever heard of a .454 Cassul?"

GL: "Oh, is that some kind of muscle car?"

A clip is something that holds bullets before you feed them into a magazine, like on the M-1 Garand or the SMLE.
Just to join the naming mess, hi velocity in guns means the speed of the bullets, not the rate of fire. a Low velocity gun, like the HK mp 5 SD (I think that's the right name) actually keeps the bullets subsonic reducing the noise it makes- the 'stealth' option. Hi velocity means better pentrating power-good for getting past armor-but it does so at the cost of sacrificing take down power.

That's 2 dolla bullets all over again.

FN five-seven with a 30 round mag weighs about 60 grams more than with a standard 20 round mag, and the clip extends about one and quarter inches past the grip. No big deal. That same increase in capacity for something that shoots .308 would be a lot more significant.


It is true though that the standard +25% cap increase from the extended mag mod doesn't change the weapon's concealability. Though it's easy enough to argue that the 50% increase referenced above doesn't significantly alter the 5-7's profile. Either way, a high cap mag's visibility isn't even relevant to the weapon unless the mag is locked in.

SR example, someone is walking around in a duster hanging their Colt M23 in a concealer beneath. It's modded for a drum, but has a clip in it currently. Conceal is +2 for the weapon and another value for the drum mag. Firefight starts and the guns come out. 2 turns of suppressive fire later, the Colt is empty. Runner drops the mag and slams in a C-mag from under the duster, and now he's really cooking.

Yep, that's the only thing 'high velocity' possibly *could* mean. It's totally transparent, which is why the SR error (regardless of the edition it came from) is so baffling. Even a 'layman' couldn't make that mistake, as long as they spoke English.

--
In that case, he's still concealing the drum. Let the GM deal with it. Besides, they should be loaded at all times, you're a runner. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I'm happy to have that extra 1.25 inches inflict a Conceal penalty, on general principles.

The bolt moves at a higher velocity in an SR HV weapon... :-/

So do the scared enemies, maybe. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This makes sense from a marketing standpoint. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Yeah, you'd have to really not give a damn.

Like I said, Ian Fleming was a world respected gun guru compared to the people who get paid to write SR.

It could be worse... we could have the gun addicts from Cyberpunk 2020 who broke down the gun gameplay into such detail they cold quote the ballistic physics of the Armalite handguns & the FPS with Lbs per sq inch stopping power. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well, yeah. Instead we have nimrods making broken guns such that there are about 4 guns of the 50?? or so in the game that are used by 95% of the players because they are obviously better than every other gun in their category.

You mean ARES PREDATOR and what else?

Also, guys, remind me: is recoil penalty applied for a combat turn or only an initiative pass?

Alpha. There is a machine pistol (whose name I forget - since we never used them) that is pretty spiffy and I think there there is another weapon.

Pistols: Ares Predator IV
MP: FN 5-7C
SMG: HK227-X / Smartgun-X
Assault Rifle: Ares Alpha

Actually, MPs are probably the most varied guns in the game since there are so few of them and each has its own advantages.

There's the FN 5-7c which has a piddly 20rnd cap, but 1pt integral RC. Real popular, but not "the obvious choice" on account of the clip size.
There's the Crusader which has a 40rnd cap and GV2 standard (which is kinda irrelevant.)
The Ceska Black Scorpion has a 35rnd cap, folding stock, and a dirt-low pricetag, so it's good for those mods based on weapon cost.
The Steyr TMP has a 30rnd cap and is FA standard at a good price. Starves on mod slots though since it has no RC.
The B&P MP9 comes with FA and a foregrip as standard, but only a 25rnd cap. Also only one with an avail of 6F instead of 8R.
The Ontari Equalizer has a folding stock, laser sight, and additional -1AP. Too bad it only holds 12 bullets and costs a grand.
The PPSK is full ceramic and easy breakdown. Availability is stupid high, natch.

The only MP that's got no particular place is the Ruger T-983. 1,400 yen pricetag and 17rnd cap completely blot out it's meager benefits of FA, foregrip and advanced safety.


Basically there's no one MP that has FA, RC and a good cap.

The 5-7c (which, the IRL 5-7 shoots like a dream,) has a potential for FA and 7RC using 5 slots, but 20 bullets limits the FA's effectiveness. That's 1 pass of suppressive fire or 2 passes of FA fire. Not really doing it.
Basically, the integral RC only really matters if you're going FA since 5RC for BF is easy enough, but the magazine isn't big enough to allow extended FA fire.


The crusader is nice for suppressive fire since it can cover 2 passes, but since it already comes with an extended clip you can't increase the cap past 40. A favorite tactic is to lay down suppressive fire from the left hand with one of these while taking the rest of that CT's passes gunning with an SMG in the right.

Meanwhile, the Ceska with 6RC and FA fire can take easy breakdown and an extended clip to bring the cap up to a sexy 44 rounds.

Your saying that like it isn't same for pretty much every rpg in the world, statting up fire-arms has a high tendency to result with some guns being better then others.

Every gun in "Gun Heaven" is a complete fail, because it is worse than the guns mentioned before in this thread AND considerabably more expensive.

You mean not wanting an Ares Alpha is odd? I agree the Ares Alpha out of the box is the best of the best assault rifles, but once you start with modding the differences between it and the other assault rifles is minimal. At Chargen, yeah you could go with the Alpha---after chargen cost and availibility are significantly higher than an AK-97/98 or M22/23.

...it's the same bloody thing. MP9 is an updated version of the TMP actually.

For heavy hand guns sr seems to be dominated by the Preator, colt Manhunter and the Ruger. and as crazy as that seems think about it. in the US revolvers are dominated by S&W and Colt. Although a .45 Colt would be ideal, a great many semi autos are Glock .40, Browning 9mm and then a mix of Sig's and Berretta's. Sure there are others out there, Taurus anyone bleah- but those are the most common weapons.

SR dreams of a bright future where Ruger handguns are widely issued to law enforcement, who are happy to have them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

(Not slamming Ruger...I love my P97. It's just that from what I've seen hardly anyone chooses to use a Ruger handgun as a duty weapon given the choice.)

Watch the first two Terminator movies- no seriously. when they made the first one most police had revolvers. When they did the second one most had gone over to semi-auto's. Revolvers in SR have great intimidation and impact- loaded with EX ronuds they've got the biggest bang for the hand gun buck, but are slow to reload and and have a limited mag- if you can hit with one it's great but hedging your bets with a 15 round mag is going to win out on planning over the 6 round cylinder.