On a scale of 1-5 how munchkiny is it to use the Genetic Heritage quality, (Aug p20), to give a character a permanent genetic infusion, (Aug p94)?

also, is it leagal by RAW? Also, has there been new genetech released in books since Augmentation?

@OneTrikPony
Since genetic infusions do suck in my book, 0.3 points of essence gone for a small boni and mosty a small drawback, I would not care.

Game balance-wise, I would consider letting a player take it with the Mysterious Implant quality (normally you don't get to pick it, so I would only give half the normal points for it, and I would still pick the addiction - that sounds fair).

Genetic heritage, I don't see, more due to the description of the quality than because of game balance. Infusions are relatively recent, and very unstable, and not suited for long term usage - someone with a permanent infusion would be like a Rifts juicer, really. I don't see a baby being brought to term and growing up with one of these.

Hmm. I read that differently. The GM picks the addiction not the infusion. Good point about the timeline of infusions vs. genetic heritage tho.
thanks.

PS. Juicers Drool; Full Conversion Borgs Rule! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Nice to find a fellow rifter on the boards.

You will get them permanently by rolling 5+ hits on your essence+edge dice. But only one out of four infusions are going to make a playable character. Inspiration is the only one that doesn´t give you drawbacks that are to severe to make the object unplayable.

I've never actually played RIFTS, but "How can I make a juicer in Shadowrun" seems to be a perennial topic, which is how I know about them.

The long term effects of a permanent infusion are up in the air, but considering how hard the user crashes after the normal duration, having it last forever couldn't be good.

Braveheart could eventually give the equivalent of the impulsive and oblivious flaws, the same lifestyle cost increase that a suprathyroid gland gives, and eventually severe long-term memory problems.

Endure would be the worst, giving the user the effects of severe sleep deprivation. Slab or similar knock-out drugs would be needed just to be able to temporarily crash, but that would only keep the inevitable deterioration at bay for awhile.

Inspiration, which normally gives a huge, huge hangover after its duration expires, would probably give the character migraines. The constant bliss and pleasure would eventually burn the character out into a jaded shell, much like meth use does.

Sideways is the most viable out of the four, but it will still typically include an addiction to a street drug, and feeling no pain at all would probably give the character the mental problems associated with sensory deprivation eventually. Simsense might help alleviate that, and a biomonitor would alleviate some of the risk of not knowing when you are bleeding out from a cut to a major artery.

Permanent genetic infusions seem best suited for characters who are messed up - live hard, die young, leave a charred corpse surrounded by 20 dead security guards. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

First of all, why the addiction to a street drug. Since it is only pain receptors, it would actually not matter (If I am not misstaken there are people with a condition which also causes your painreceptors to malfunciton. I do not think they suffer from sensory deprivation, thought). If I do not feel pain, it is not a bad thing.
A problem would be, that you would start behaving a bit reckless. A biomonitor is a great thing, but it won't tell you on the fly, that the thing you are touching is really hot and you should not do it. So I guess you will always have little injuries and burns and you do not know where they came from.
But it is the only one, which is RAW (well, maybe inspiration) not a total pain in the ass.
(True, actually it is freaking good. Did not remember that one...)

One question still remains for me: What the hell are combat tests? Only ranged and melee combat (and maybe one additional die to reaction test) or ALL test made in combat (which would be to good!)


Actually, it is more for the guys who like gambling and win.

Honestly: If you do not have at least essence+edge 6, I would not dare it. Critical glitch and there goes your character...
(And edge may not be spend on this test!)

Presumably, Combat Active Skills.

I do not think it is too imbalanced.

The Permanent Infusion quality already exists: RC 106. Its a negative quality that nets you 10 points, and also sticks you with a drug addiction, but also a free Infusion of your choice.

a 10bp POSITIVE quality that does something similiar, without the downside, seems right to me.

In case people missed it, you can already start with it. It seems less munchkiney for people to pay FOR the thing they want instead of getting it for free.


Then again, our table doesn't really mind re-fluffing mechanics into a different name that is more apt/appropriately fitting/less common-sense-breakey while still maintaining the cost and effect of whatever it is.

The thing with not feeling pain is that your not gona feel your own skin. Hens no physical joy, am I still holding my gun?, did I wet myself, smells like it etc
I myself has cos of an accident this problem in one of my legs and its no fun. Always afraid to hurt it and you Walk like your dunk. No feeling in your feets meens you wobbel:)

Lets look at it. All exept sideway is useless.
I think sideways should only apply to stun damage like the pain editor.
Than it would be a good deal, but not that powerful.
Right now it is quite good for 0.4 essence, but on the other hand the nanohive in the cyberfoot is way worse.

"Why are things squishy? That's because I wet myself." - Hardison, Leverage

I was going by how the Mysterious Implant flaw works, as well as the fluff of "most genetic infusions also trigger synthesis of an addictive chemical." This is dodgy technology, and the people pushing it are not really any different than the people peddling cram and jazz.

Not really. Pain sensation is quite different from warm/cold, touch etc. Those are different receptor cells.

"most genetic infusions also trigger synthesis of an addictive chemical."
This would, to me, mean that a body starts producing a drug.
Which the owner of the body could, probably, have milked from his body and sold for a profit.
And the body itself would probably go immune against such a thing . .
In SR3, getting a chemical gland(bioware that produces chemical X) made you immune to chemical X at least.
Because the Body knows: OK, this here is mine, this belongs here, no need to freak out about it . .

@Irion: there are no pain receptors.
There are heat, cold and pressure receptors.
And if the input is too strong, then it's painfull.
Because it is too much for your body to handle.
So it tells you to stop doing whatever it is that makes you experience that much heat/cold/pressure.
OK, so there are receptors that react to puncturing wounds too, but that's still no PAIN receptor.

That's the last thing that could ever mean, Stahlseele. If I had to guess, it's supposed to mean that getting an infusion is, itself, addictive. You'd have to be a total munchkin to say that you get a free chem gland, free immunity, and become a walking drug factory… all as a side effect. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

It is late, I suggest you read it again tomorrow (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Yes, there are no pain-receptors anymore, because of the definition of the word "pain". They are called Nociceptors.

It's definitely a good change, as well, that a chem gland doesn't make you immune. That never made sense. Even some animals that use toxins aren't immune to them; biology isn't magic.

Just a nitpick, but the Natural Immunity quality might be relevant here. It can protect you from the downsides of chemicals

I doubt that the insensitivity to pain that comes with the infusion Sideways is debilitating, It's probably more on the scale of Congenital Analgesia

I'm also rethinking my agreement that Infusions could not be an effect of the quality Genetic Heritage. It's probable that all Somatic gene therapies were first explored and developed as Germline therapies.

Thanks for all your input.
I've decided that permanent infusions as Genetic Heratage qualities are only level 2 on the munchkin scale. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I don't see how, Udoshi. Unless the GM somehow decides that your Natural Immunity miraculously happens to be the specific addictive by-product of your unnatural Genetic Infusion. Even if, that's a lot of BP to spend on something. :/

About the "adictive chemical"

I'm pretty sure that the point is that the Infusions themselves are addictive not that the infusion triggers the synthesis of JAZ or novacoke. This could be by design or by accident. It's easy enough to understand that any of the mentally effecting infusions could create dopamine rushes or mess with those receptors.

Yup. It certainly doesn't mean 'choose any addictive drug'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Going by the flavor text, it is by design on the part of the unscrupulous people pushing genetic infusions. Again, "most genetic infusions also trigger synthesis of an addictive chemical." The negative quality in Runner's Companion (under Mysterious Implant) specifies that the genetic infusion is accompanied by a moderate addiction to a street drug. So presumably the infusion creates the dependency, but doesn't synthesize the drug after the first time? Or it synthesizes the drug at regular intervals? I lean towards the first one, but either one is bad. Either you need to get a regular supply of a street drug, with all of the hassles that entails, or you get drugged up at certain intervals, maybe not always predictable ones.

It can be a random street drug, but I like making it a plausible one. Maybe someone with a permanent Endure infusion needs doses of slab to be able to rest at all. Maybe someone with a permanent Inspiration infusion needs to take dopadrine every now and then to come down from that exhausting, continual high.

I would be careful about allowing a player to take Natural Immunity for a drug - it is intended for diseases and toxins only. The problem with drugs is the line about the character being able to take a dose at a certain interval "with no ill effects". This is an innocuous line applied to naga venom or VITAS, but for drugs, the munchkins all squeal, glomp onto that line, and proclaim that this means they can take combat drugs, infusions, and so on, and get the bonuses, no problem, but then not suffer any ill effects afterwards. Which is patently ludicrous. If you are immune to something, it shouldn't affect you at all. The "ill effects" line is only there because diseases and toxins don't have any non-ill effects. So if a player asks you about taking that quality for a drug, be sure to have the rulebook handy. Not to quote, but to smack them with.

You know where the idea that Leprosy causes the victim to "fall apart" comes from? That's what happens when people constantly hurt themselves without realizing they did (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)