And I don't believe there *is* an 'astral' version at all. Invis is for vision, not astral sense. We've been over this so many times. At best, the GM could stupidly allow an 'astral sense' custom version of the spell, assuming such a thing is possible (I say it's not, astral 'sense' is unlike physical senses and an invalid choice for the spell).

Hmm. you might be onto something there. Sight indeed dose not work on the astral plane. I however do not see why an "ignore sensory input from the astral sense" spell should not be allowed.

The other version would be to modifiy regular invisibility to be "multi-sense". Then it would either fool the 5 normal senses or astral perception, depending on the plane it is cast on.

That is indeed the standard suggestion; I do prefer to say that astral 'sense' is of a different category from physical senses, and ineligible, but that's just me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

There are the espirit grenades in Arsenal which mask your presence on the astral. I don't think its game breaking to offer a spell which can achieve a similar effect either.

- J.

Yeah, I noted the absence of good spell for this some time ago and came up with Astral Invisibility - and as per standard procedure published it all over the matrix so that new characters could have it, too. I see that some people here might disagree with the feasibility of it, but I have a bribable GM, so I got my new spell. Nyah. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That may be, but the total effect of a spell that can do it is obviously vastly different from a physical grenade that can do something like it.

I always liked the "disguises don't work on the astral plane" theory. Things appear as they really are. The obvious exception that proves the rule is Masking. Other than that, the best option for hiding is the same as it is for mundanes, put something opaque between you and the viewer and hope for the best.

Per se, there are no rules against it. It would still impact game balance, I'd say. That goes doubly for the multisense version.


It does mask you, but in a way a smoke grenade masks you on the physical plane. Sure, you cannot be seen - not so very stealthy, though.

Good thing about astral patrols? It's quite a hassle to report back an intruder if you are on the astral plane. Radio comms don't go there and there's little you can do aside from calling a spirit onto someone. That's already a big gun, I'd say.

Indeed. I'd allow an 'astral smoke bomb' spell before I'd allow astral invisibility; the balance difference is clear.

There already are two more versatile spells than an astral smoke bomb. Both Entertainment and Phantasm can create astral smokescreens, among other things.

So, there you go. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Watcher spirits - especially attuned ones - do just nicely for this task.

- J.

I think that still qualifies as a hassle, but yeah, it's not insurmountable. Whoever invents a cheap astral-radio focus will be pretty famous, though.

SR4A, pp 208, 2nd paragraph under Illusions heading.

Personally, I would consider 'astral invisibility' coming under 'disguise'

Why are you trying to solve the problem like this? Shadowing and infiltration work on the astral plane as well.

True, but nondetectability is better than stealthy movement.

There's an Illusion spell in Digital Grimoire (pg.17) called False Impression/Manascape(area) - this can alter the impressions gained from magical senses (assensing, psychometry, sensing, magic sense, astral window, and other magical senses).

It's not a far cry from that to a 'true' astral invisibility spell.

We've certainly discussed that option in the past. My position then was that an altered impression can't include a *null* impression. That spell has the limited effect, AFAIK, of changing specific bits of info: 'he's an elf', 'he's angry', etc.

Yes, but the fact remains that spells can affect magical senses by RAW. The leap from an altering illusion to an invisibility illusion isn't a very big one.

That's true, and not what I'm talking about. AFAIK, that particular spell only lets you 'wear a false mustache', not 'become invisible'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yeah, exactly. You can appear as someone/something else.

I was just using it's existance as reasoning for the viability of an astral invisibility spell.

I get that. It's not a conclusive argument, but it is certainly suggestive. Given the arbitrariness of magic, I'm happy to posit that appearing as nothing is simply impossible, and categorically different from the false mustache. I accept that this is arbitrary, of course, based if anything on game balance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If one wanted astral invisibility, I'd be more comfortable allowing a specific spell just for that, rather than allowing a do-everything multi-sense one, or even allowing Manascape to do it, etc. It's definitely an opinion, based on the time-honored principle of "don't give the mage an inch". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Oh, I agree that it has to be specific; an astral version of Invisibility (though I'd go for multi-sense as a requirement for drain purposes, just because astral is different)

Yes, that seems fairer. I just don't want a single multi-sense spell that works everywhere at once (or even each in turn).

Wrong. Regular invisibility is a Mana Spell. it works on anything living, and on the astral. If you are dual natured, you're good. If you're astral only, no need for improved invis.

Hiding the spell aura is the tricky part. Masking CANNOT hide your invisibility spell. Its a little like having cloaking generator that doesn't cloak itself. Extended masking CAN make the telltale aura of an existing spell completely go away because it specifically works on spells and foci, not just your own immediate body-only aura.