That's a solid point.

Yeah, but they don't have a steady pay rate. Sure they rock the big money, but what happens when times are lean?

When the heat's on and there's no work, what do Shadowrunners do? Smart ones have contingency plans or other marketable skills (Combat Medics can work at a Black Clinic, Riggers can wrench at Shadow Garages, Street Samis and Muscle can work as Bouncers, Faces can con rich people into letting them live with them, Hackers/TMs can spoof a lifestyle, etc.).

Exactly so. For me, if the players really invest in the game and I manage to capture their imaginations the downtime stuff can be as interesting as the runs.

I think in the past our games have paid about $10,000 per runner, sometimes more. Just depends on your group and how often you play. You a decent amount of cash to buy upgrades. Also PCs will find ways to make money on the side - stolen cars, stripping cyber from dead opponents, hacking bank accounts of passers by... If you offer them more up front you can minimise this kind of sidetrek cash grabs!

Yeah, from time to time my players have gone on near-ridiculous looting sprees, taking even used Ares Predators from corp sec and fencing them off for 100:nuyen: each...this on jobs that paid upward of 10K per runner...

One PC even learned medicine and cybertechnology during the game so he could cut out cyber from bodies himself, eliminating the middle man.

Seems reasonable. They're fairly portable, and you never know when having a spare gun in your backpack will come in handy.



I can't imagine this one being cost effective. You'd need like, a facility to do that, wouldn't you? 100K is a really big investment - you'd need to cut a lot of 'ware out of stiffs just to break even. Exactly how many cybered bodies were your group generating?

A shop should be enough (because you can operate someone with a valikyrie module) - also notice, a med. facility costs 200.000nY, and a med. shop 10.000nY

Yeah, he was using a medical shop - since he didn't really care much about the original owners he only needed to focus on removing the cyberware in working condition. I'm not sure how many bodies he butchered for 'ware before he died, but I'm guessing 25 or so.

Ahhh. I didn't know they arbitrarily spiked the price on medical shops/facilities.

Anyway, you make a fair point about not needing the owner except as some meat you can toss at Tanamous for some extra (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) .

One thing to limit cyberware-butchering is to give the opposition Beta- or Deltaware. These grades are custom fitted for the physiology and immune system of the target, and other people using them should suffer severe allergic reactions, therefore used betaware is worth less than used standard-grade ware. Kinda like my glasses are worth ~500$ to me, but most other people will not pay even 20$ for it.

Can you come up with relevant rules sections that say that used beta and delta CYBERware sells for less?
I can see the common sense argument for bioware, but the higher grade cyberware should simply be more biocompatile in general.

For example with your glasses: Especially with the expensive glasses the price difference is frequently in the frame, rather than the optical parts, translating in a higher selling value.

@Glasses: My frame costs ~70$, the glass itself was ~470$. Hard contact lenses for me cost ~1600$ (but my health insurance pays 1300$ of this)

Get Turn to Goo spell. Remove cyberware in moments. Profit.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)




-k

Well, i'm glad none of my players took turn to goo - but i would just ban it if one tried to take it.

Goo has an Armor rating of Body+net hits and takes damage normally, so unless you rule that the cyberware somehow miraculously 'pops out' of the goo you still have to separate the goo and the cyber (sorting through the pile of intertwined goo/clothing/gear in the process) using violence.

These are your glasses. Other glasses might be something like 3000$ for the frame and the same 500$ for the glasses.
Those are the 'expensive' ones, yours are just regular glasses custom fitted to you. I.e. the listed value for your glasses would be 70$+standard glasse prices
and there's a customization cost for you because you took the 'extremely short sighted' quality at chargen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) .



EDIT: Ok, disregard whatever i wrote here, i found a better argument myself to support your position:



I'm still unsure about the value of said 'expensive components', though. Even with extensive retailoring required, given the exorbitant cost there should still be SOME profit in salvaging beta/deltaware and thus reintroduce them into the production process as mostly raw material. If that profit is higeher or lower than selling standard grade street stuff is probably subject to GM's opinions (and your potential fencing pipelines).


P.S. I'm not really over my first gut reaction of 'Fixing street level problems by bringing up corp level cybered opposition?' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I usually make clear very early in my games that used cyberware isn't a very worthwhile endeavor. For one, having the powergamers try to harvest all the fallen foes tends to eat-up too much time, and it makes it risky to throw cybered opposition at the PC's.

It certainly possible to extract something specific for a plot purpose, e.g. pull an implanted commlink out of a Mr. Johnson's skull so you can get at the data or similar, but in general, "Just say NO to cyberware harvesting".

One of my group's most interesting runs was based on their downtime hijinks.

They had to steal a cow, you see, and...

Please, for the love of god, tell us this story!

OK, the group decided that investing in short sell on companies before they did Shadowruns was a good way to make money... But then they thought, "Why wait for a job?", bought up shares in one of the ArgiCorps in Seattle, and started trashing the stock prices of the other ones.

One went bankrupt, which was a Mafia Front. So the Capo Contact of one of the members calls up, freaking out, and demands they steal a cow, immediately, "I'll owe you! Gotta go, too much to do!"

So, they get the cow by magically lifting it over the fence while everyone and their dog are wiping out computer memory and shredding paper, and get it into the Commercial Van.

Bad news is:

One: It's the Tony Montana of cows, and is high on Novacoke.

Two: It's got a stealth RFID tag that immediately transmits I'M BEING STOLEN above the van. While they're driving on the highway. And the cow keeps kicking the van, shoving it side-to-side.

This was before my group even bought an RFID Tag Eraser, and was the FOURTH time I nailed them with a simple ARO tag. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

I have to use that cow sometime...

Oh wow, that must have been fun. You'd think they'd have wound up lining the van with AR-blocking wallpaper after that.

Why was the cow high on Novacoke? Was it a specific cow that had been targeted by the mob, one genetically modified to produce Novacoke milk, and thus always high?

Did it introduce them to its little friend?

So where's the chicken?

Clinging upside down between the cow's udder and her leg. Waiting. Just waiting. Waiting for the cow to give the signal to attack.

Waiting for the bovine to attack the 'runners with its mighty cock.

They weren't smart enough to think about electronics emission control. 'Course, neither am I... As much as should be.

It was a specific cow, and it was a biofactory cow that's designed to eat the ingredients for Novacoke, and have it come out in it's milk. (The Mafia was planning on investing in some milk bars, and attracting some Droogs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ). They never solved the problem of it always being high on it's own supply. But they did get one politician who never could eat just one hamburger. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

They eventually bought a knock-off, stolen signal blocker at the Crime Mall, ran it to the cow, and jammed a whole city block. Then paid a hacker contact 1,000¥ to read the instructions (Which were extra at the mall) to them. They literally threw the money into his black bank account before he could say word one.

"Adjust the rheostat all the way to the black dot, and activate the electrical current flow to the device's system." "WHAT???" "Move the dial all the way to the left and turn it on."