Agreed, Bearclaw. And that's RAW, AFAIK, not my weird suggestion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But that still leaves everything *except* the matrix stuff, assuming they can see locks and car parts and things (which we are assuming they can).

I'm not positive task spirits should even exist, as you suggested earlier.

Wait.

Spirits can't watch silver screen movies either?

Well faux.

That is not really an Electronic Projection on Screen. It is light passing through film onto a screen. Not the same process.

The text of page 92 of Street Magic gives a bit more fluff on spirit senses. Basically, astral perception is their primary sense, like smell for a dog. "When observing an object, a spirit sees the auras and shadows first and the physical characteristics second. Physical details metahumans characterize as obvious are frequently overlooked entirely by spirits."

It would be like, if a dog summoned a human into the dog world and asked him to describe a bush. "Well, it's green, with some blue flowers on it." "Who cares? What does it smell like? Don't you freaky human things have a sense of smell?"


Personally, I am fine with task spirits being gimped with regards to technical tasks. I see them as more the Norse dwarven metal forgers, house fixing brownies, gardening gnomes, and such. It breaks the verisimilitude of having these quasi-alien creatures, not quite in synch with the material world itself, much less technology - and some of them can hack or repair complex electronic devices as well as the most gifted human can. Too much of a disconnect from everything else about spirits for my taste.

I agree with this. For Task spirits to be able to fully function in the "modern" world, they'll need an appropriate "translator", such as a host body from possession or inhabitation.

?

The only reason this argument even exists is theoretical. The only traditions to have access to task spirits are possession ones, and possessing spirits have quite explicit limits on what technology they can use (Street Magic page 102, quoted earlier in thread). An argument can be made that possessing spirits can see old fashioned screens, but that's some outdated drek you have to dig up, then.

Not so sure this is purely theoretical - home-brewed traditions are totally allowed, meaning you could have materializing task spirits

So, are you saying that you would consider the technology of someone using a flashlight to shine the light through the film to show the image on the wall as an Electronic device? I sure would not. And that is precisely what a Film Projector does. There are no "Electronics" involved in processing the image. There are versions of such things that do electronic processing, yes, but at the basics, a Film projector does not do so (and yes, outdated it may be, but it is still functional technology).

Yet the two are functionally identical once the light leaves the camera.
But somehow the latter one produces a result which is effectively invisible to the spirit.

My interpretation is that by "electronic projections on screens", they mean monitors like what we're using.

Precisely. Electronics deal with circuits, diodes, tubes, etc. By definition, a lightbulb wouldn't be electronic. Most movies (I.E. All but nostalgically shown, like drive-ins) would be played in AR anyway, as would television. See the recent Horizon book for more on that.

Given that television these days is in projected 3D... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Not mine... That is just a fad. Not going to invest in it, personally. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Besides, it produces massive headaches. Until they can remove that side-effect, it is just garbage as far as I am concerned.

I meant ShadowRun's present day. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Trideo.

Of course... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Stop being heavy-handed and abrasive and reread what I said. I clearly corrected you on nuyen costs, not Essence costs, and the rest of me "crying like a baby" was addressing a legitimate question raised by someone else. Your namecalling was unwarranted and served no purpose.

No worries Neraph, he's been outed (by himself) as a troll. Don't give him another second thought.

All the info about not being able to see various types of displays brings up a food for thought question:

How does Buttercup function in the 6th world?

Hardcopy...

Doesn't the fluff say that spirits can't read signs either?

Nope...
Some People here believe that that is how it SHOULD be, but it is not. By RAW, they cannot perceive Electronic Output, nor AR.
In fact, the fluff says they can read just fine. After all, Buttercup is an Avid Comic Book fan.

K, thought I remembered fluff about signs and everything else being a problem. Almost as if their "eyes" weren't capable of focusing on things enough (which of course might be corrected with glasses.... hehe)

Signs and such are a problem FROM ASTRAL SPACE (Even for Mages Projecting). You cannot read them with Astral Sight or Assensing. That is mentioned in 4th Edition, somewhere. Unfortunately, it is not mentioned, mechanically, whether Spirits have normal Senses when Matterialized. I believe they do based upon all the fluff over the years. Other's disagree. Mostly because it de-powers spirits if they do not. And in their opinion, anything that de-powers spirits is a good thing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

There's some text about the level of detail when astrally perceiving in SR4A, and a mention that if one has the astral form critter power, one is astrally perceiving. Nothing definitively conclusive either way, though.