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Psikerlord
post Apr 24 2012, 11:38 PM
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hmm yeah I like that break concentration rule. it might pop up every now and then

SR4A p.183 - spellcasting link requires either touch or LOS.
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pbangarth
post Apr 25 2012, 04:35 AM
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QUOTE (pbangarth @ Apr 23 2012, 11:39 PM) *
A sustained spell can be broken at the most inconvenient of times by a mere jostle. If the mage doesn't want to risk that, he better pay for the foci, in cash and karma.

QUOTE (almost normal @ Apr 24 2012, 05:12 PM) *
How?

SR4A, page 184, "If a magician’s concentration is disrupted while sustaining a spell, she must make a Spellcasting + Willpower (2) Test to avoid dropping the sustained spell (note that the sustaining modifier does not apply to this test)."
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The Jopp
post Apr 25 2012, 09:21 AM
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QUOTE (pbangarth @ Apr 25 2012, 05:35 AM) *
SR4A, page 184, "If a magician’s concentration is disrupted while sustaining a spell, she must make a Spellcasting + Willpower (2) Test to avoid dropping the sustained spell (note that the sustaining modifier does not apply to this test)."


Ah, we now have a wonderful use for the Turbotickle spell... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
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darthmord
post Apr 25 2012, 01:00 PM
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QUOTE (The Jopp @ Apr 25 2012, 04:21 AM) *
Ah, we now have a wonderful use for the Turbotickle spell... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)


Or the Orgasm spell...

Just saying... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)
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Dakka Dakka
post Apr 25 2012, 01:38 PM
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QUOTE (Psikerlord @ Apr 25 2012, 01:38 AM) *
SR4A p.183 - spellcasting link requires either touch or LOS.
It does not say however that spells with Range: LOS or LOS(A) can substitute LOS for touch. So someone who has only LOS and LOS(A) spells cannot cast spells, if he cannot see.
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cndblank
post Apr 25 2012, 03:19 PM
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QUOTE (pbangarth @ Apr 22 2012, 04:22 PM) *
Well, sort of as silly as using Reaction to dodge a fireball covering you and everything within 5 metres of you.



If I see a grenade or fireball heading my way, I'm REALLY going to try to get out of the way or get behind some cover.

Hard to do (so -2) but not impossible.

Add in simultaneous actions of multiple targets who could already be in motion and be moving in opposite directions...

So spell/grenade is going to end up where the attacker targeted it (limited by his skill).

It is the targets that are going to be the ones moving around.

As a GM, I would feel free to move the targets around a little to represent their diving for cover.
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Dakka Dakka
post Apr 25 2012, 03:38 PM
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QUOTE (cndblank @ Apr 25 2012, 05:19 PM) *
So spell/grenade is going to end up where the attacker targeted it (limited by his skill).

It is the targets that are going to be the ones moving around.

As a GM, I would feel free to move the targets around a little to represent their diving for cover.
That is good, but unfortunately by RAW the grenade moves and not the target.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Apr 25 2012, 07:55 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Apr 25 2012, 08:38 AM) *
That is good, but unfortunately by RAW the grenade moves and not the target.


Interesting Interpretation. Can't agree with it.
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Irion
post Apr 25 2012, 08:02 PM
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I think the target does, or it would be quite silly, if two guys were evading the granade in opposite directions. The granade would need to explode at to places...
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Dakka Dakka
post Apr 25 2012, 08:06 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 25 2012, 09:55 PM) *
Interesting Interpretation. Can't agree with it.
Dodging including full defense does not involve any lasting displacement of the dodger. The grenade however will explode Scatter-hits*x+defender's hits form the intended target. (x is a modifier depending on the type of grenade)

@Irion: That is not a problem, you are not supposed to target a point in space with grenades, you are supposed to pick a (primary) target who dodges in the aforementioned manner. Secondary targets may not dodge at all according to RAW. This is patently silly.
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almost normal
post Apr 25 2012, 08:15 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Apr 25 2012, 04:06 PM) *
@Irion: That is not a problem, you are not supposed to target a point in space with grenades, you are supposed to pick a (primary) target who dodges in the aforementioned manner.


According to the rules, you're completely wrong.
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Dakka Dakka
post Apr 25 2012, 08:35 PM
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QUOTE (almost normal @ Apr 25 2012, 10:15 PM) *
According to the rules, you're completely wrong.
Prove it.

There is no mention that dodging means being in a position distant from your starting point before the dodge.

QUOTE ('SR4A p. 155')
Make a standard ranged attack test using the attacker’s Agility + appropriate combat skill (Throwing Weapons or Heavy Weapons), opposed by the target. If targeting a location, treat this as a Success Test instead.
Next, the gamemaster must determine the grenade’s base scatter. All grenades scatter to some degree, but an attacker who made a good attack can limit the distance the grenade scatters.
The gamemaster determines the direction of the scatter by rolling 1D6 and consulting the Scatter Diagram. The large arrow indicates the direction of the throw, so a result of 1 means the grenade continued on past the target, while a result of 4 means the grenade bounced back in the direction of the attacker.
Having determined the direction of the scatter, the gamemaster next calculates its base distance. The Scatter Table indicates the number of dice rolled to find the scatter distance. Airburst grenades only roll 2D6 for scatter (see Airburst Link, p. 322).
The attacker reduces this scatter distance by 1 meter per net hit for standard grenades or 2 meters per net hit for aerodynamic grenades and grenade launchers. If the scatter distance is reduced to 0 or less, the grenade hits the target exactly. (Note that additional hits do not add to grenade Damage Values). Otherwise, the grenade lands at the remaining distance in the direction indicated.

So given equal rolls on part of the attacker and the GM on the scatter roll, the defender's roll defines how far from the intended location the grenade explodes i.e. the defender moves the grenade. There is no mention whatsoever that people just happening to be in the blast radius but not aimed at by the grenade user get any dodge roll.
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almost normal
post Apr 25 2012, 08:38 PM
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Thanks for doing the work for me.

QUOTE
Make a standard ranged attack test using the attacker’s Agility + appropriate combat skill (Throwing Weapons or Heavy Weapons), opposed by the target.If targeting a location, treat this as a Success Test instead.


QUOTE
you are not supposed to target a point in space with grenades
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Dakka Dakka
post Apr 25 2012, 08:48 PM
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What I meant was, you are not supposed to target a point in space, if you are trying to hit a target that can dodge. Nobody would ever throw a grenade at a person, unless the rules say you have to.
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almost normal
post Apr 25 2012, 08:49 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Apr 25 2012, 04:48 PM) *
What I meant was, you are not supposed to target a point in space, if you are trying to hit a target that can dodge. Nobody would ever throw a grenade at a person, unless the rules say you have to.


So... We're dealing with dodging buildings here, or are you saying that the rules don't support aiming for the space between two targets with a grenade?
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Dakka Dakka
post Apr 25 2012, 08:53 PM
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QUOTE (almost normal @ Apr 25 2012, 10:49 PM) *
are you saying that the rules don't support aiming for the space between two targets with a grenade?
Yes.
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almost normal
post Apr 25 2012, 08:58 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Apr 25 2012, 04:53 PM) *
Yes.


Okay. That's fine if you want to GM your game that way. I promise I won't helidrop into your house and shoot you for playing that way. It's just the rules say the complete opposite of what you're saying.
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Dakka Dakka
post Apr 25 2012, 09:37 PM
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I have no intention of GMing that way because it is silly.
The rules however say that you treat the roll as a success test if the target is a location and an opposed test if it isn't. Nobody would go for an opposed test if he could get away with a success test. So this "option" should have been omitted.

Regardless of the availability of the success test, as soon as someone does choose the opposed test, the defender moves the grenade. The defender is not displaced by dodging but the grenade explodes farther away from him if he scores more hits. This of course is silly, but unfortunately that is what the rules say.
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Neraph
post Apr 26 2012, 03:52 AM
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QUOTE (almost normal @ Apr 25 2012, 02:58 PM) *
It's just the rules say the complete opposite of what you're saying.

I agree... with Dakka Dakka. You are completely incorrect on this point.
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Mäx
post Apr 26 2012, 01:54 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Apr 26 2012, 06:52 AM) *
I agree... with Dakka Dakka. You are completely incorrect on this point.

QFT
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DMiller
post Apr 27 2012, 03:43 AM
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QUOTE (Mäx @ Apr 26 2012, 10:54 PM) *
QFT

Man IMNBNNEFTI because I had to look up what QFT meant...

(IMNBNNEFTI = "I must not be nearly nerdy enough for the Internet")

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

-D
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Apr 27 2012, 01:41 PM
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QUOTE (DMiller @ Apr 26 2012, 09:43 PM) *
Man IMNBNNEFTI because I had to look up what QFT meant...

(IMNBNNEFTI = "I must not be nearly nerdy enough for the Internet")

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

-D


Heh... Awesome. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
At least you knew where to look, though. I wouild say that qualifies you as nerdy enough.
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The Jopp
post Apr 27 2012, 02:49 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Apr 25 2012, 09:37 PM) *
Regardless of the availability of the success test, as soon as someone does choose the opposed test, the defender moves the grenade. The defender is not displaced by dodging but the grenade explodes farther away from him if he scores more hits. This of course is silly, but unfortunately that is what the rules say.


So the attacker gets a very good success and actually HITS the person he aims for, the opposed test is made and the defender dodges the grenade completely (if enought successes are made).

This creates a few problems depending on scenario, especially if more than one person is affected by the blast as more than one opposed test would have to be made - and would be especially true if the grenade detonates inside a limited space (for example a room with only one exit).

The grenade is limited to the area and saying that the grenade simply explodes away from EVERYONE without going back out towards the possible attacker OUTSIDE said room is a bit silly.

Aiming for a point on the ground IS very logical if you want to hit people in a specific area. Just give everyone an opposed test to represent taking cover but treat the grenade as hitting the spot the attacker chooses as long as he gets a success.

After all, the grenade has to explode SOMEWHERE - unless we rule all completely dodged grenades in a room as a dud, which is kinda boring if you want secondary effects from explosions etc.
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yesferatu
post May 17 2012, 12:41 PM
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Can anybody tell me how edge would work while casting multiple spells?
Let's say I'm Armoring 3 team members...do I add my edge score and then split the pool 3 times, can I spend edge afterwards somehow or do I need to spend edge on each roll?
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Neraph
post May 17 2012, 01:07 PM
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Since multicasting is technically multiple actions taken simultaneously, I'd say you get to add Edge to one of those pools. You'd have to spend multiple Edge to get all pools.
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