Attack dice for combat chracters tend to vastly outnumber defense dice for dodging and negative modifiers. Your choices become adding a point of damage for a die lost, or taking away the enemies chance to absorb a third of a point of damage.

Thats of course using normal combat characters against normal opponents.

Doublay post.

Yes, that's exactly why +4DV/-4 dice is such an amazing (too amazing) deal, one that mostly helps PCs and hurts NPCs.

Re: spells and called shots, you *can* use them in the right circumstances. But 'ignore cover' isn't even available for guns. Called shots are for 'increase DV/vulnerable spot', 'bypass armor', and 'special effects specifically like knock people off a ledge'.

Agreed, called shot doesn't (forgive the pun) cover ignoring cover. and IMHO +4DV/-4 dice is AWESOME, it means i can limit the variability of my damage a little.


On a side not, I dont have my books at work, but can you take multiple "called shots" I.E. ignore armor and aim for a weak spot? or aim for a weak spot and try to knock people off a ledge?

No. At least, it's all presented as a singular, 'or' choice; and the actions required don't help much.

Kinda the way i was leaning, just want to be prepared for it, because i know one of these days that silly sniper is going to try to call all 3 at once, just to see if he can.

No doubt he'll even want to just use the +4DV option multiple times (cuz why not?).

AHA!!! aiming for the very tip of the penis!!!! for an extra +12DV!!!!



Edit: Circumcision via .50 Calibur!

The one in my game did Called Shots to ignore the armor of people through buildings (TacNet info from teammates), dropping his dicepool into the far negatives, then Long Shot with his 7 Edge. It was disturbingly effective.

7 edge,,,, holy balls!

Ah yes... the classic "Mr. Lucky" archetype

Make a high edge char (6 to 8)... then do something piling on tons and tons of negatives... the farther below zero the better. Then cometh the longshot test :). Impossible shots are only one way to go about it... the other big one I see is the longshot social tests (for real hilarity when they assert something so ludicrous it must be true)....



It still amazes me how many people don't give all the resistance and visibility penalties out in fights.. then wonder why bullets hit so much and spells always seem to work. It's like there's no other way to fight than the OK corral with everyone standing in the open on the street instead of running for cover.

Another common one I see is people don't realize it uses up their free action to run.... (and they forget the -2 attack/+2 defense it grants to do so).

Things like that are why there's a GM, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

They should really change how the Edge rules work. Ignoring ALL penalties while making a shot that WOULD be impossible INTENTIONALLY feels like blatantly cheating regardless of how much BP one has crammed into the edge attribute.

Lets just take a silly shot:

Target Hidden: -6
Full Darkness: -6
Off Hand Weapon: -2
Recoil Full Auto: -9
Attacker in moving vehicle: -3

Thats just a start but we still get at : -26

Ok, the character spends a point of edge for a lucky shot and STILL gets to roll dice and completely ignore a -26 dicepool.

Im suggesting a small houserule:

Edge spent on a lucky shot must be equal to Total Edge X Edge vs dice modifier - lets call this the Edge Effect.

A character with Edge 3 would have an Edge Effect of 9 (3X3) and a character with an edge of 7 would have 49. The edge effect is modified by spent edge. A character with 3 edge who spent one edge would have an Edge Effect of 6 (3X2) and the one with 7 would go down to 42.

The character with Edge Effect of 9 would be able to ignore modifiers down to -9, any modifiers above that still impacts his Lucky Shot roll.

This would mean that your luck is limited and you will also eventually run out of luck. Still, the Edge 7 guy would still be able to fire of one spectacular shot.

I like your thought process here, but I think it adds un-needed math to an already sometimes math-heavy game. This is after all a luck roll. Sometimes the "heros" are just that lucky. With 7 dice you're still only talking about 2 hits on average and if the defender doesn't get 2 hits on the defense, well sucks to be them.

Oh and you forgot -3 PD for physical damage and another -3 for stun damage bringing the entire lucky shot dice pool modifier to -32.

-D

Dont forget that at a -40 (-4 for range penalties and -4 for a +4DV) we can actually assume that the hidden target (in another building across town) is unaware and cannot dodge.

We also fire the Elephant hunting rifle with Ex-Explosive rounds so we have about 11P -2AP so we will hit with about 15P.

Yes, we keep the full auto modifier of -9 on the SS Elephantr rifle because the shooter has a serious case of parkinsons. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

One success will be enough, he will most likely not survive.

These crazy edge shots would never hit though would they? Even Edge 7? So 7 dice.... vs what 4 reaction plus 4 cover most times... unlikely to hit, esp given ties go to defender

The point is that most of these crazy shots wont allow a dodge/defense test if the target is unaware.

Still, it IS up to the GM to say,yes - you hit the building and the bullet did not go through three concrete walls and hit the target.

After all, insane luck will not break the laws of physics completely. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Ah right gotcha. Yeah ambush style would work. Not so hot mid battle.

Mid battle my game's sniper ended up two-shotting a F8 (IIRC) Termite Queen through building walls. He was using the Model 121 with ADPS though - that helps.

EDIT: Wasn't my sniper.

well, all you really need is to be in a neighbouring room so the enemy is unaware and a millimeter wave radar implant. Get a sawn off PJSS hunting rifle and blow both barrels With APDS to ensure getting through that wall.

I'll guarantee the target will be surprised.

I'm trying to convice my newest player (who has NEVER played shadowrun, but is an old time gamer) to make a 7-8 edge Character, and take the Bad Luck Neg Quality. I happen to think it would be funny as hell! and make for some interesting RP

Really is not all that Funny; but it does make for decent roleplay experiences. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

"I use edge to dodge the SMG fire! I... roll a 1."

"Okay, let's add up your hits to defend, use them as net hits for the attack, and you take.... 23 damage. Burn an edge and we'll see you next session."

And again... Not all that Funny... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I agree. If humor was the motivation, there's plenty of things you can do in game that don't give you a bonus to build points. In fact, I think most people will find that their GM will reward them for voluntarily taking negatives to their dicepool for humor or for humorous results, as opposed to trying to hamfist it into play.