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Chance359
post Apr 20 2012, 09:20 PM
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Race:
I always prefer ork for Sams,

Bioware:
Enhanced Articulation (check with your GM about how he/she defines "Active" skills
Muscle toners
Muscle Augmentation
Syntha cardium

Cyberware
ear (spartinal recognizer, amp, damp)
eyes (low light, eye light, flare comp)
Smart link
Datajack
Bone lacing (plastic)
Dermal Sheathing
Wired Reflexes

Skills:
Primary range skill (Assault Rifles, SMGs,
Secondary range skill (probably pistols)
Melee skill (I'm a big fan of implant weapons/Retractable climbing claws for the utility of their climbing bonus)
Stealth
Athletics
Etiquette (the social stealth skill)

Gear:
Primary Weapon with all the bells and whistles
Secondary Weapon with all the bells and whistles
Set of work armor (high ballistic and impact)
set of social armor (tres chic or suit from Cannon companion)
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_Pax._
post Apr 21 2012, 02:03 AM
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QUOTE (Infornography @ Apr 20 2012, 03:59 PM) *
I'm pretty sure boosted reflexes and synaptic boosters aren't compatible with each other.

They are completely compatible in 2E and 3E.

HOWEVER, IIRC there are two key limits:

(a) Only a level 1 Synaptic Accelerator can be co-implanted with Boosted Reflexes

(b) Both implants have to be put in AT THE SAME TIME. There is no "upgrade later" option.

I no longer own copies of the books in question, though, so I can't cite specific rules to support either of the above. Sorry.
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_Pax._
post Apr 21 2012, 02:14 AM
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QUOTE (Chance359 @ Apr 20 2012, 04:20 PM) *
Bioware:
Enhanced Articulation (check with your GM about how he/she defines "Active" skills
Muscle toners
Muscle Augmentation
Syntha cardium

Muscle Aug is only useful if you expect to be in melee often. If you're primarily a shooter, you can skip any +STR boosts.

Synthacardium is great for athletics, but only for athletics. The money and Bio-Index may be better spent on other things - like Symbiotes, a Platelet factory, or Orthoskin.

QUOTE
eyes (low light, eye light, flare comp)

Eyes: Protective Covers, Display Link. The covers keep your oh-so-precious eyeballs safe from harm. The display link means your group's decker can throw up maps and schematics right in your field of view.

If your GM allows it, Dikote those protective covers. Just for the sheer sexiness of it (and the extra +1/+1 armor value for those eyeballs).

Other potentially-useful cybernetics include an Orientation system (always have the maps you need - works well wit that display link), and skillwires. Even just a rating 2 Skillwire system can be darned useful.

Or, alternately, stick the skillwires and the wired reflexes into a single system: Move-By-Wire. That one carries significant risk in pre-4E games, though. So it's not for everyone ...
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Stahlseele
post Apr 21 2012, 11:19 AM
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QUOTE (_Pax._ @ Apr 21 2012, 04:03 AM) *
They are completely compatible in 2E and 3E.

HOWEVER, IIRC there are two key limits:

(a) Only a level 1 Synaptic Accelerator can be co-implanted with Boosted Reflexes

(b) Both implants have to be put in AT THE SAME TIME. There is no "upgrade later" option.

I no longer own copies of the books in question, though, so I can't cite specific rules to support either of the above. Sorry.

No, nothing in the fluff nor in the crunch that would indicate this.
one works your spinal coloumn, the other works your brain
and seeing how synaptic accelerators are frigging expensive and cultured bioware and thus can't be gotten in character-generation, it would be a REALLY big Set-Back to not allow people to get boosted reflexes in char gen and the synaptics later on in game . . because you need to keep about 2 to 4 points of essence free and then need to scrounge up enough money to get both boosted reflexes AND the synaptics at the same time . . seems a bit hard for it to be the only way to get to 4 ini dice via technology rather than MAAAGIIC . .
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_Pax._
post Apr 21 2012, 11:36 AM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Apr 21 2012, 06:19 AM) *
[...] the only way to get to 4 ini dice via technology [...]

Um ... Wired Reflexes (3). +6 Reaction, +3d6 initiative.

As for your fluff and crunch check: I'm not sure if that was a limit in 1E, 2E, or 3E. But one of them had it.
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Infornography
post Apr 21 2012, 12:31 PM
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The advantage of (stepped) wired reflexes over boosted reflexes + synaptic booster isn't just the additional 4 reaction dice,
but also the circumstance that you're not as likely to go insane since it can be triggered or stepped down to only +2 reaction and +1d6 init,
while boosted reflexes and synaptic boosters are always active. Beeing able to always act faster than you can think must be pretty awful at times.

As a GM I'd certainly treat it as a drawback.

"Someone snuck up on you! REACT! REACT! REACT! NOW!"
"Oh shit! I punch 'em in the face!"
"Woops. You just knocked out that nice old lady from next door. Nice going, psycho."
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binarywraith
post Apr 21 2012, 02:00 PM
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QUOTE (Infornography @ Apr 21 2012, 07:31 AM) *
The advantage of (stepped) wired reflexes over boosted reflexes + synaptic booster isn't just the additional 4 reaction dice,
but also the circumstance that you're not as likely to go insane since it can be triggered or stepped down to only +2 reaction and +1d6 init,
while boosted reflexes and synaptic boosters are always active. Beeing able to always act faster than you can think must be pretty awful at times.

As a GM I'd certainly treat it as a drawback.

"Someone snuck up on you! REACT! REACT! REACT! NOW!"
"Oh shit! I punch 'em in the face!"
"Woops. You just knocked out that nice old lady from next door. Nice going, psycho."


Yeah, the fluff (included in the old sourcebooks' decker comments and in at least one of the novels) about the inevitable results of unstepped Wired Reflexes and Move-by-wire systems was great that way, and I always play it up when I GM. One of my favorite NPCs is a fixer with tremors from that, actually. He had the system disabled so it couldn't do any more damage, but he still has the shakes.
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Infornography
post Apr 21 2012, 03:26 PM
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I also love things that tamper with your mind, like cerebral boosters or make you do things unconsciously like reflex-recorders.

Or un-triggered tactical computers that mark every policeman, bar- and shopkeeper as a target,
because you subconsciously feed it with the suspicion of them carrying weapons, because that's simply common sense in shadowrun.
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Lantzer
post Apr 22 2012, 07:04 PM
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QUOTE (Infornography @ Apr 21 2012, 01:31 PM) *
The advantage of (stepped) wired reflexes over boosted reflexes + synaptic booster isn't just the additional 4 reaction dice,
but also the circumstance that you're not as likely to go insane since it can be triggered or stepped down to only +2 reaction and +1d6 init,
while boosted reflexes and synaptic boosters are always active. Beeing able to always act faster than you can think must be pretty awful at times.

As a GM I'd certainly treat it as a drawback.

"Someone snuck up on you! REACT! REACT! REACT! NOW!"
"Oh shit! I punch 'em in the face!"
"Woops. You just knocked out that nice old lady from next door. Nice going, psycho."


Yes, I always figured by the descriptions that Boosted and Synaptics sped up transmission of sensory/motor reflex impulses, but they were handled in the normal way. Wired, on the other hand, placed neural network chips at the spinal cord that would be trained by your normal response impulses, but would replace the actual impulses to the muscles with faster non-biological signals. So you react faster, and use your natural reactions as an overall training tool, but the wires are doing the instant response for you at any particular point.
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Stahlseele
post Apr 22 2012, 09:03 PM
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yeah, i think the rule only talked about wired and move by wire, not boosted and synaptics . . not sure though.
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Sir_Psycho
post Apr 23 2012, 08:48 AM
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Kid stealth cyberlegs with pneumatic jacks, cyberclaws and Dikote. Dikote everything. Go on, treat yourself.
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Stahlseele
post Apr 23 2012, 11:33 AM
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For silly ammounts of damage, you can abuse dikote and the arsenal close combat stuff where you get to add STR/2 again to your damage, if you attack with 2 of the same close combat weapons.
So. take a Troll. Take the Combat Axe. Add Dikote. You are now at STR+1D Damage. Now you take a SECOND axe and do the same. You are now at STR+(STR/2)+2D Damage.
Strength 16 Troll. 16+8+2D=26D Damage. Yes, you totally can cleave the car in half, why do you ask?
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remmus
post Apr 23 2012, 04:17 PM
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QUOTE (_Pax._ @ Apr 21 2012, 04:14 AM) *
Muscle Aug is only useful if you expect to be in melee often. If you're primarily a shooter, you can skip any +STR boosts.


well with one exception, if you wanna handle recoil and the GM uses the optional STR gives recoil comp rule from arsenal, a narrow exception I know but it´s one

Plus in my mind there is always gonna be a moment your without a gun or ammo, so the extra umph in a punch/swing is always handy, even if your are primarily a gunner.
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Kagetenshi
post Apr 24 2012, 12:15 PM
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QUOTE (remmus @ Apr 23 2012, 11:17 AM) *
well with one exception, if you wanna handle recoil and the GM uses the optional STR gives recoil comp rule from arsenal, a narrow exception I know but it´s one

The GM's definitely not going to use the STR/RC rule from Arsenal, but they might use the one from Cannon Companion.

QUOTE
Plus in my mind there is always gonna be a moment your without a gun or ammo, so the extra umph in a punch/swing is always handy, even if your are primarily a gunner.

Eh, skill is so dominant in melee that it's really only worthwhile if you're going to actually try to do damage. Not worth the Essence, IMO.

~J
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Naysayer
post Apr 24 2012, 12:35 PM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Apr 24 2012, 02:15 PM) *
The GM's definitely not going to use the STR/RC rule from Arsenal, but they might use the one from Cannon Companion.


Nyeh, or maybe shey do yoosh the rule from Arsenal2060, witsh ish the title of the exshact shame rulebook in Shermany...
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baron_samedi
post Apr 26 2012, 12:17 PM
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QUOTE (Infornography @ Apr 21 2012, 03:26 PM) *
I also love things that tamper with your mind, like cerebral boosters or make you do things unconsciously like reflex-recorders.

Or un-triggered tactical computers that mark every policeman, bar- and shopkeeper as a target,
because you subconsciously feed it with the suspicion of them carrying weapons, because that's simply common sense in shadowrun.


that inspires me.
Have a fixer dump some "questionable" hardware on a team who (as a skill test to see if they get the gear checked) rushes to use it...it gets all wonky for them. they become their own worst enemy and a threat to the public in general because of it.
the best part is that even with the hair trigger responses to every little thing, there are people out to get them (well, the hardware back.)

a good way to punk a team for a session.
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Infornography
post May 13 2012, 08:22 PM
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Are mundane, non-cybered fighters feasible in SR3 or are they damned to remain in the shadows of cybered sams and adepts?
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_Pax._
post May 13 2012, 08:47 PM
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Yes, absolutely. Especially with the Priority based character construction of 3E and earlier.

What you do is, push Attributes and Skills into the top two Priority slots. Resources takes the third position (IIRC, that's 90K nuyen), race and magic get the "dump" spots. You won't be able to compete with cybered-up specialists ... so what you can do is be a "jack of all trades". Not a Rigger, but still a very good driver. Not the cybered-up gun-bunny, but still a very good shooter.

You can even push some areas about as well as cybered or adept characters - like being a Face, without sacrificing the combat role.
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Stahlseele
post May 13 2012, 08:59 PM
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I don't know how you would want to compete with cybered/bioed up fighters under SR3 Rules.
The only way you could do it would be to go the complete chemical warfare way probably . .
And then you are still worse than somebody who does that and gets some ware.
That is, after all, the whole POINT of getting ware . . To compete with Metahumans and Magicals.
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Wakshaani
post May 13 2012, 09:09 PM
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There's also the, you know, character part of things. In my 320 point challenge thread, for instance, my STreet Sam is Princess, a corp brat whos family got fired and they wound up losing everything, getting dumped into teh worst parts of Philly, where she had to toughen up or die, a situation that got worse when her father suicided and her mother turned to the bottle. Princess goes the Gillette route, with blades a big thing and dressing to project "Don't mess with me" levels of tough.

Another Sam I have is a soft touch, designed to get through scanners thank to being a bio-beast instead of cybered. Loses some toughness and technology, but gains in subtlty, so he's able to go where other sams can't.

A third is a true Samurai, whose corporate master is no more, thus turning him ronin. He has a fairly typical reflexes+muscles build, but his primary focus is in the katana, and he takes the whole honor thing VERY seriously indeed.

A fourth is an Ork that doesn't care what it looks like as long as it works. Prefers to not fight at all, but if one breaks out, well, kill everything that moves so that they can't root you out later.

Each has a very different build, as you might imagine, even if some elements (increased reflexes and strength) are common to 'em all.
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Link
post May 24 2012, 11:32 PM
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QUOTE (_Pax._ @ Apr 21 2012, 11:36 AM) *
Um ... Wired Reflexes (3). +6 Reaction, +3d6 initiative.

As for your fluff and crunch check: I'm not sure if that was a limit in 1E, 2E, or 3E. But one of them had it.

As noted above [by Stahsteele] it's Move by Wire and Synaptic 1, rather than Boosted. My initial instincts agreed with you but I found the actual rule in Cybertechnology p57.
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_Pax._
post May 25 2012, 02:20 AM
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QUOTE (Link @ May 24 2012, 06:32 PM) *
As noted above [by Stahsteele] it's Move by Wire and Synaptic 1, rather than Boosted. My initial instincts agreed with you but I found the actual rule in Cybertechnology p57.

I don't believe MoveByWire could be co-implanted with Synaptic Boosters. Admittedly, I might be wrong about that; it's been several years since I've cracked a 2E or 3E book.
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Stahlseele
post May 25 2012, 06:52 AM
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Nope, does not work.
Synaptic Accellerators under sR3 only worked with Boosted Reflexes.
Not with Wired Reflexes and not with Move By Wire either.
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Link
post May 25 2012, 08:27 AM
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Here's the rule in question.
QUOTE ("Cybertechnology p57")
SYNAPTIC ACCELERATOR
Synaptic accelerators may be Integrated with move-by-wire systems only with considerable difficulty. To date medical specialists have successfully combined only Level 1 synaptic accelerators with move-by-wire systems, and the Integration of the two requires extreme care. If a character wants the combination triple the normal cost for the synaptic accelerator. Move-by-wire systems can only be Implanted simultaneously with synaptic accelerators.
Characters who already possess accelerators cannot receive move-by-wire systems and vice versa.
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Stahlseele
post May 25 2012, 08:43 AM
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Cybertechnolgy . . That's SR2 still right? O.o
Man and Machine of SR3 changed this i think.
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