Has anyone got any experience with the HK MX30 or the (At first glance inferior) Steyr AUG-CSL? They're expensive, but is the ability to convert them for almost any role worth it?

I tried the Steyr on my first Street Sam and while it's nifty to be able to switch roles I found that having a good, versatile weapon was just much better. Not to mention that focusing on Automatics covered nearly all the ranges I could expect to fight at.

It could also be a liability, not many people use the XM30 or the Steyr AUG, and your have a pretty clear trail.

SMGs are cool as well, though I prefer Assault Rifles these days. The Praetor's a nice SMG, 50 rounds too.

The Russian Merc I play just picked up a Knock-off Russian Version of the XM30. Works okay for me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Ok, some ideas I've been considering:
Base weapon: Shiawase Arms Tactical Model 71 SMG. (4750 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) )
Gas vent 3 accessory (400 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) )
Underbarrel weight, auto-adjusting (150 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) )
total cost: 5300 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)
Near total recoil compensation, a ton of mods built in... but very expensive for an SMG.

Base weapon: Shiawase Arms Tactical Model 73 Assault rifle. (2750 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) )
Gas vent 3 accessory (400 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) )
Foregrip mod (50 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) )
Sling mod (15 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) )
Underbarrel weight, auto-adjusting (150 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) )
total cost: 3360 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)
Good recoil compensation, the ability to truly bring the pain if needed... and a 100. round. clip. standard. throw on extended clip (25%) and you have a 125 round clip. even with high velocity, you're not going to be reloading very often.

The first rule of fighting the Star is, DO NOT GET INTO FIGHTS WITH THE STAR!

That said...

I would actually suggest you not tote a gun. What you should do, instead, with your reasonable but by running standard mediocre weapon skill of four, is you should be manning a manually operated turret.

Whammy Bammy, there goes any and all recoil concerns. Get a gun, a big gun, with a big ammo capacity or a belt feed, slap it in a manually-controlled, armored gun turret, with an extra ammo feed and gyroscopic stabilization.

You can back up the Rigger, and unleash MAXIMUM FUCK at will, with virtually no ammunition concerns whatsoever. You can apply the smartgun bonus, to boot, all while enjoying the armor of the vehicle.

"But, what if I need to shoot at something which is inside?" No problem! Thanks to the fact that this gun will be armed for MAXIMUM FUCK, you can shoot THROUGH the building! Seriously, with good ammo, even reasonably sturdy buildings won't stop you from shooting your targets! And windows will be even easier.


Won't that be fun? You can benefit from the full armor rating of the vehicle, too.

No gunnery, I'm afraid. That means using a weapon hardpoint (or whatever its called) which 'only' provides 6 points of recoil reduction... in which case, a tripod is the more mobile version.

It's a great idea with one or maybe 2 flaws.
Flaw the first: our rigger has put all of her guns on remote mounts already, and to cap it off all of our regular vehicles are fully modded. that means I'll need to convince her to remove something in order to add the new hardpoint. not much of an obstacle for a face really, but it's something to consider.
Flaw the second: all the really good "shoot through walls" guns are either heavy weapons or high powered rifles, with me having no skill with the former and not really benefiting from the extra recoil compensation with the latter.
Flaw the third: the big one: sitting in the car isn't really how I like to play. Smart move be damned, I enjoy running around shooting stuff!

On the note of playstyle: The character is an ex-ganger with a thing for street knock-offs over corporate issue toys. If anyone could suggest some 'street special' alternate names for some of the suggested guns that would be appreciated (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

^_^ Pintle mount on a Segway. LOL.

Nah... Use a Daihatsu-Caterpillar Horseman. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The best part is that it's a vehicle, so you can armor it up to 20 if you're really nuts. Heck, even with Concealed Armor, to boot! If you put on the advanced cargo module, you'll have two more Body for mods, and the cargo module arms can pass you - and your teammates - ammo! Heck, you could carry rockets and program the cargo module to reload the heavy weapons guy after he fires.

The Model 71 is a kinda bad gun. It's really, REALLY expensive, and it comes with a lot of mods, but quality is better than quantity. A whole pile of crap like Melee Hardening is not that great.

The Model 73 is not a terrible gun but it's not what you want. The reason to use it is that it is a HV-inherent gun that's compatible with a gyrostabilizer, which the other ones aren't. You don't want a gyrostabilizer, ergo, you don't want this gun because it is an assault rifle with 5P DV.

If you don't want a gyrostabilizer, IMO your best option is a HVBR with as much RC as you can get. You can't get 11, but you can get 9:
4 base
3 Gas-vent mod [2]
1 Personalized Grip [1]
1 underbarrel weight [2]

Your GM may require the last slot for Firing Selection Change FA because editing is hard, but otherwise you can extend the clip or whatever.

RC of 9, meaning you can do long/long with a -2 on the second shot. It's still a good gun; compared to FA guns firing long/short, you can just wide burst on the second long and still come out ahead. In any case, -2 to hit for +3 DV is a good trade.

In What world is a SKill of 4 Mediocre? Definitely not in Shadowrun...

"But by running standards mediocre."

It's high if, say, you're talking about beat cops and low-end private security. By running standards, it's mediocre. No Street Samurai is going to boast of having a mighty four in Blades.

You would be wrong in that assumption. I have a Street Sam who is damned proud of his abilities with Blades and Firearms. Blades Skill of 3 and Firearms skill of 4. I think that many here are jaded against something as "Mediocre" as a Rating 4 Skill, though, because of the Dumpshock Prejudices ("If you are not rolling 20+ Dice you are inept") on Character Creation... Hell, MOST (like 90%+) of my Street Sams have either a 3 or 4 in their Firearms skills. That is Professional/Veteran respectively, after all... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Indeed! Besides, the max skill of 6 is just 2 extra dice. Nothing to sneeze at, but certainly not the bee's knees in terms of what separates Gun Jesus from the red shirts. With all bonuses gun bunnies get from everything else, the difference between 4 and 6 is not the Grand Canyon.

Your Sam needs to learn humility the old-fashioned way: by boasting in the wrong places and having it beaten into him.

9, actually. Aptitude (Weapon Skill) and Specialization (Favorite Killstick).

I'll echo Tymaeus here: in what world is a 4 mediocre even for shadowrunners ...? Are you going to be the team shooter with a 4? Probably not. But is your skill "mediocre" (in the sense ofbeing insufficient to make a real and measurable contribution) ...? No, no it is not.


Sure she will - when she says "I've got the Close Combat group at 4. If it can be used to slice, stab, bash, poke, pierce, mangle, mutilate, or otherwise inflict wounds in hand to hand combat, I can use it."





You do realise, you can specialise with less than 6 ranks of the skill, right?

Also, Specialisation does not actually increase the Skill. It's a Die Pool modifier. An Adept with "Pistols 6 (Revolvers +2)" can only benefit from 3 levels of Improved Ability, not 4.

For maximum mayhem, I've become a fan of the FA modified AVC-7.62 with 100 round drum. Load it up with recoil comp options and you're only dropping 2 dice to fire full bursts, and the 7P with a -1AP is mechanically superior to the 6P with -2AP offered by the MMG it is suddenly pretending to be.

He's comparing a 4 skill to a 6 skill.

That extra 2 dice also allows you an additional Take Aim action, allows you to take a 3rd rank of Improved Ability, and means someone with a natural 5 Agility has their dice pool cap rise from 20 to 22, allowing for improved use of Tactical AR Software, Machine Sprites in Smartlinks, and numerous other tricks.

Or, for more pure perspective, someone with a 6 skill shoots as well at a full run as someone with a 4 standing still.

4 is the limit for skill groups at character creation... and isn't bad for a support character. Could I have made it higher? Probably. Should I have? I'm not convinced of that. Let the combat specialists have their time in the spotlight while not being dead weight, that's what I say.

Yes, thank you. I was just correcting SD, because we had some conversational wires crossed and he seemed to think someone was comparing "capped skill" to "no skill at all," or something like that.

Mediocre means "roughly average", you realize, right? "Roughly average" is enough to make a measurable contribution, but that's all. It's nothing to brag about in the company of stars and superstars.

Mediocre players can make real and measurable contributions to a team (whether Shadowrunning or sports,) and their particular contribution may even be the deciding factor between live or die, get paid or get doublecrossed, win the game or go home losers... But they're still not going to shine like the super-stars and they shouldn't boast as if they were their equals.




And then someone pulls out a kusarigama and she has no idea what the fuck she's doing.






Yes, which is why boasting with four dice is especially egregious, since someone of truely meager skill with the general class of devices can specialize in a given weapon and reach it.



Yes, but it is still, I say, boastable, because it says you care enough about crushing face with that device to go out and get it.

No, actually, it doesn't quite mean that. It means "of moderate or low quality". Mediocre has clear and long-standing negative connotations.

Since you're talking about word meanings ... http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mediocre


You're asserting it should be an Exotic weapon? I disagree. Perhaps you should have chosen something more exotic ...?


The guy with skill 4 could be specialised, too.

Also, as I've already said once now: Specialisation DOES. NOT. ACTUALLY. INCREASE. YOUR. SKILL. RATING.

Skill 1, and Specialised? Reflex Recorders to Jack over Squat for you - even though you're rolling the same 3 dice (plus agility) as the unspecialised Skill 3 guy.



You don't have to be the best int he world before boasting that you're better than the majority of metahumanity. Which someone with a 4 clearly is.

I hate to break it to you ShadowDragon, but not everyone automatically give their character a gun skill 6 + Aptitude + Specialization (+ no doubt high AGI with Metagenic Improvement yada yada) as standard. While such "superstars" may exist and be renowned for their aim, quite often their ridiculously high DP is only giving them +1DV (assuming 3 dice for one hit) over the guy with skill 4 + Specialization, which often in-game merely means one extra overflow box compared to his "mediocre" compatriot.

By RAW, a skill or 4 is NOT mediocre, a skill group of 4 (with all the tactical versatility this gives) even less so, *especially for a face character*. Sheesh.

I wouldn't call players who manage to generate characters with realistic (in the world of Shadowrun) skill sets mediocre at all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bye
Thanee