Memory fails me a little but didn't the second Great Ghost Dance do something to nukes? I haven't read that trilogy in years. Maybe I should.

Copied out of the bubble: "Some postulate that the Earth’s manafield effects rapid nuclear reactions, while others believe that Gaia has some sort of cosmic veto power over nukes, but the fact remains: nuclear weapons have become unreliable." & "...with the general guideline that the smaller the nuke, the more reliable it is..."

The reason why is one of those things that's been left open ended. As for the GGD, I do recall that weather in places was changed forever (like those living downwind of Mount Rainier), but I'm not sure if it had an impact on nukes (plausible, though).

Nah, the second one from the first trilogy of novels with Sam whatshisname. "Never deal with a dragon", and I forget the other two books.

1.) For actual access you need to hack yourself an account on it
2.) Been over that already, either cryptography works and the rules for decryption become "Extended EW + Decrypt Test (Rating, 1 galactic year)", or it doesn't and two-factor systems are just as broken as the rest.

@annachie: I think you are confusing the GGD with the ritual Twist performed in the Secrets of Power trilogy to defuse a lot of nukes that got into wrong hands (and which was kinda based on the Ghost Dance).
Edit: NVM

As I have observed already: if you actually apply good, logical, rational security procedures to things liek this? The entire game breaks down. Not just hacking Joe Nobody's commlink, but ALL of Shadowrun. Pack up your dice, put your pencils down ... game over, no more quarters.

Cameras are everywhere in Shadowrun. Face Recognition software is frightfully effective right now; it could only be lightyears better in a world with full-immersion VR, not to mention actual god's-honest-truth Metasapient AIs. Marketing profile tracking is another angle of attack; every soycaf you buy, every bus or subway fare you pay, every drink at a nightclub, every taxicab you ride. Every single last nuyen you spend on anything even vaguely legal, in fact. Plus the movement of your vehicle - if security systems work by real-world standards, then "gridlink over-ride" would simply be physically imp[ossible for less than a AAA megacorps quarterly site-security budget. All of it. For maybe two vehicles. Three, tops.

...

Security like that is a place where the entire world of Shdowrun MUST firmly grasp the Idiot Ball ... or the genre collapses in on itself.

As I said the second one. Everyone dances until they die, use the resultant power for whatever.
It was the same basic ritual, though probably smaller.
(Then again, it's been at least 15 years since I last read the trilogy. Maybe longer)

But if i can just swoop poorly secured commlinks all day, why should any hacker go on runs paying less than 50 grand a day?

Because otherwise you're not playing Shadowrun.

Nope... It happens because of Explicit Magical Intervention. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
EDIT: OOOPS, Already Covered in greater detail above.

Indeed. While the game world has to explicitly ignore a lot of things to work, so do the players have to ignore some ramifications of that.

No it doesn't.


It happens because bullshit.

The ambient manafield of the world doesn't flat interfere with jack shit else on a global scale. It sure as hell doesn't interfere with electromagnetic radiation! It doesn't interfere with ballistics, or chemistry, and it definitely does not interfere with nuclear power generation. There's no Force 30 spirit out there named "Gaia" who's flying around sustaining a Suppress Nuclear Reaction spell on every single nuclear warhead in the world - if there were, Ares would have tracked her down and dropped a Thor Shot on her ass.

Maybe because all those other things you listed do not directly cause massive long term harm to the biosphere? So yes, it happens because "fuck you I'm not going to let you explode that 100MT warhead and make toxic 500sq miles plus fallout".

Starting to make me wish I had read more than the game books. Would be nice if this were mentioned in one of them that I've read.

You're wrong, but it is really not worth arguing over. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Fifty grand? Yeesh. The estimates above are around fourteen or fifteen grand, for one. GROSS, not net. I estimated about 5 grand actual net result - with more than one day's work required. Call it 10 grand a week.

And yes, IMO you SHOULD be getting paid at least that much, to do shadowruns.

Well, call the 50 grad a risk premium - if i can make 10 grand a week without risk, they have to pay really good to make me take that risk.

And toxic, regulations-free extraterritorial unfeterred pollution does not directly cause massive, long-term harm to the biosphere?


Frankly, I think the whole "nukes stop working, lol," thing is just to explain why the superpower nations didn't say "Okay, this corporate extraterritoriality shit has gone on far enough, we're not letting you jackasses get all the benefits of nationhood whilst leeching the responsibilities off on us, time to end this little experiment and put the law down."

Except it's not "without risk". Pull that scam too often, for too long, and someone WILL eventually track you down. Someone unhappy with having had to cover all the "Fraud insurance" payouts you've been costing them. It just isn't likely to happen this week, or this month. Probably not even this year.

So, if a shadowrun doesn't pay at LEAST as much as you'd get from this sort of thing? "Why're you wasting my time with this lowball drek, chummer? Go hire some ganger punk, and call me when you have REAL work on offer."

If off-camera, day to day activities can earn more than the presumably higher-immediate-risk stuff runners are expected to handle ... why the frag would most of them bother? "This ain't no charity, chummer. You wanna play with pro's, you gotta pay pro rates."

Yea, pretty much.

They basically created Shadowrun 4 to be a combination of a future STASI society combined with the british fetish for excessive camera usage and cranked up the volume to a 110 with the addition of the wireless internet world.

If one followed the rules by the letter the game would be IMPOSSIBLE unless everyone went completely black ops with daily disguises just to get some bloody food.

Well, if you take the face-case from Spy Games, this is entirely possible.

That's the way I would handle that:

-Hacker PC: I've come up with a terrific idea to make loads of cash.
-Me GM: Uhm what?
(Hacker exposes his idea, I come short of counterarguments)
-Me GM: Ya know you might eventually be discovered? And that would off-balance the whole group! I don't like it at all.
-PC: Not my concern, I'll do it anyway.
-Me: Well ok...You found out a way to get way more cash than by Shadowrunning. Your character stops Shadowrunning. What will be your new one?
-PC: What!?! I'm still deciding for my PC and he Runs for fun.
-GM: Not in my gaming group and I don't feel like ruining the game.


Seriously, I play RPGs since 15 years or so. I've seen so many GM that hadn't enough courage to oppose a player and say no to something that could be detrimental to the game. You know what I think about? The munchkin that unbalanced the game. The player, who wants to play a bad guy that crosses his friends until the whole group finish disgusted by the game. The player who uses loopholes for short term advantages.

I'm done with such things. Now, I'm just considering things firstly under that aspect: Will it make the game enjoyable or not?


Exemple:
Fairly riskless mass account hacks in Vampire=> additionnal wealth and influence: Positive for the game and in scope of the game => Cool.
Fairly riskless mass account hacks in Shadowrun => less fun for the group (lowers suspension of disbilief because technically, if you have loads of cash, there's no need to Run => dull shadowrunning+possible jealousy/imbalance between players)=>No way.

I know some GMs that would say: well ok because you (supposedly) can do what you want in an RPG, then strike back with problems induced by the idea. But for the (whole) group it's not fun to deal with the problem 1 player just induced. Heck, it's not fun for the GM neither. I mean dealing with problems induced by a great run against Yakuza: yes! Cool! But for mass hack of wageslaves... Not cool at all...

sk8bcn: So basically, you're saying that the GM can demand the players grab tight onto the idiot ball and not use the skills they have in sane and logical ways to make money that does not involve doing stupid, massively risky Shadowruns for peanuts? Because otherwise you can't control the game?


You need to hand in your GM card. If the only way you can think of to make players want to take a risky run for low reward is "you're running out of rent money and will wind up on the streets,' then you're boned.

There's plenty of reasons that could lead the players to play an adventure whatever the RPG. I have, like any GM around a full hand of motivations that I can use to drag the players in the game. It can be: do the right thing (save the world kind of stuff), fight evilness, use the players background, emotions, use the lust for new powers, whasoever.


It's not my point.

Let's say I propose a Shadowrun for the players way too difficult or not worth the reward. I failed as a GM. I guess it's time for them and me to discuss with each other about how we both perceive the game and make adjustments.

Because, either the characters say "no thanks, I'll pass" and we can all go home tonight because we won't play (heh, you seldom preparre a second scenario just in case of).
Either they say yes because they want to play, but actually don't want to step in the scenario (and it will fail anyway).

So I'm not saying that I must refuse ideas like mass-hack just to keep control of their motivations for the game. I even consider it to be my fault if they don't want to step in the scenario.


My point:

What I learned is that I'm responsible for their fun, but they are too.

When I start a Shadowrun game, I have a good idea of what I find cool in the game. Running on the edge, action, infiltration investigation, teamplay.

1 player hacking accounts large scale is unfun to me. Because, part of Shadowruns pleasure is to get upward in equipment and karma and reputation. It's a reward of the adventure. A mass-hacking idea might work, might induce complications, but that's not something within my scope of what's fun in the game.

Ofc, it would be open to debate within my group. Like "Ok, you wanna mass-hack. But why? Because you find that the scenarios aren't enough rewarding in money? You feel you struggle too much in that area? Or did you just found a loopshole to exploit?"

If it's one the 2 first reasons, I should maybe change somthing in the Gaming style. Augmenting rewards maybe? Having the Runners closer chronologically closer to each other (to pay lifestyle less often)

But mass-hack adds nothing to the game. Not in my sight at least.


Again it also depends on which game you play:
Exemple: you play vampire: How I see the game: Gaining power among cainites by controling spheres in human society: You come up with that idea? Nice, thumbs up!
you play Ars Magica: How I see the game: raising the power of your Covenant: Nice thumbs up, fits perfectly with the game.

First off, it's not "risky runs for peanuts" it's that by using the high level skills players have access to and using them in either legitimate fashions (see: ChemistRun) or "shoplifting" levels (i.e. hacking 1000 comlinks for $5 each) that takes less than 10 seconds to pull off (read: higher pay per hour, but boring), the game breaks down.

It's not that runs don't pay enough, but that the rules that make runs possible also make it so trivial to con the masses for pennies each.

Essentially it boils down to "why do the scatter rules on missiles suck?" "Because otherwise they'd insta-kill players, and players don't like that." Only replace "scatter rules on missiles" with "any given rule" and "otherwise they'd insta-kill players" with "the side effects of a good rule."

I'm with sk8bcn, actually. The GM and the players should be cooperating to craft an enjoyable story for everyone at the table. GM included.

The very vulnerablility that makes such a mass-hack scheme possible, is the result of the system itself playing with an Idiot Ball so that the players can play AT ALL. So frankly, if the setting has to grasp the idiot-ball in a way that allows such a hack, then I think it's only fair and reasonable to require the players to follow suit in a way that preserves the integrity of the game and setting.


No, s/he doesn't.


That's a huge assumption; nothing sk8bcn said, suggested his runs were not properly compensated-for.

Whereas, there ARE people who will say "look I can make 10K/day profit! With only one hour per day of "work", too! 'Day Job' can suck it, this pays MUCH better!" ... and they'll say it no matter how much their shadowruns are actually playing.