Yeah, XL Engines make the ammo and gauss explosion very much worse than before . .
because case actually does not help anything at all in these cases(get it?) because the explosion still rips off more than enough of the engine to kill the mech . .
all it does is make the mech more salvageable by the victor of the battle . . case2 on the other hand MIGHT be better . . no idea actually, never used that stuff.
i tend to like to play zombies. fusion engine, no side torso engine crits, no ammo or gauss in the torso or legs AT ALL . . even better if i can completely ditch anything explodey completely . .
then crit stuff it with heat sinks and targeting computer and other such stuff and armor up to the maximum and call it a day . .
i killed a nightstar in an hunchback 4p, because he just could not kill it . . because there was nothing explodey, no big one weapon to destroy, no ammo, and the heat sinks and medium lasers were crit tanking anyting he could throw at me . . while he was basically all ammo and engine crits and i hit one such crit every third round or so . .

Hunchback driver here.

DEFINITELY get the gauss in place of the AC/20 for right now. AC/20 is nice and all (I DO use it), but the "Box" that houses the thing is so freaking huge that its downright EASY for it to be knocked out at range.

I carry 3 tons of AC/20 ammo, resulting in 21 shots. I often lose the cannon before I've had time to fire even half that because everybody and their mother can hit it directly if they want to, and even hit it more than 1/2 the time on accident.


Supposedly, the next patch is going to introduce some hellatious cockpit shake when you get hit with the thing, which would go a long way towards making the AC/20 as useful as it should be as a brawlers weapon.

a bit astonishing, that there are no real canon variants of the swaybacks with PPCs or Large Lasers O.o

Those weapons kind of take it out of he brawler role. A shiatload of MLs though are basically just as good as the cannon in MWO. Their shoulder is a little harder to hit and A LOT less targetted.

Those weapons kind of take it out of he brawler role. A shiatload of MLs though are basically just as good as the cannon in MWO. Their shoulder is a little harder to hit and A LOT less targetted.

Finally got to play Battletech tabletop, and I got to see first-hand just how impressive a Ammo Cook-Off can be!

"OK, ammo hit, ow... 110 Long-Range Missiles equals... ... One really blowed up mech!"

Just wait, CanRay. Soon, ammo explosions will make you feel all funny, and you will be strangely satisfied inside when it happens even to your own mechs!

hahaha, I useed to put my ammo in the ARMS, and then CASE the suckers. Everyone owudl be "dude, that's easier to HIT, you're nuts" ... until I'd have an ammo explosion, and KEEP WALKING AND FIGHTING.

Then, suddenly, I wasn't quite so nuts anymore.

Just store a ton of ammo in the head. You're fucked if they crit you there anyway.

Depends on the design, in TT. Torso-mounted Cockpit, yayy!

yeah, ultimate pimp style baby . .
torso mounted cockpit and ammo in the now empty head!

... and both shoulders as TURRETS, wooo!

IS can only CASE the torsos Pax.

Clans (aka twinks) get auto-case on everything without any crits or expenditures.

CASE II ... ^_^

When you start putting turrets on mechs, you're in make shit up mode anyway. Might as well have fun and install negative weight/crit CASE III

No, not at all.

GOL-1H Goliath, just for starters. Also, the QKD-8X Quickdraw (experimental prototype) specifically and explicitly has a Turret-adapted Head. The JR7-F Jenner also sports a turret, as does the BGS-4T Barghest, the RCL-Z1 Dig Lord, and the STO-6X Stiletto. Actually, he Stiletto has two - one in EACH side torso.

So. You were saying?

I was saying you're in make shit up mode anyway.

Look, it's a fun place to be, making TSM monsters with 120 point damage physical weapons, but you're pushing the envelope with anything recognizing actual battletech, not even mentioning balance.

They gave you those fucked up toys to play with. Im not putting you down for playing with them, but there's a line you cross when you go into that territory, and it's full of LAMs and bronys.

The Goliath was in the very, very first STARTER BOX for BattleTech. All the mechs I listed - a list you promptly ignored - are from official TROs.

Furthermore, I'm not talking about "hypercheese" nonsense, either. I posted a 20-ton "Police/SWAT" mech upthread. It's a 20-ton, 8/12/- speed quad, with the RT mounted as a Turret, carrying a Medium Laser, an SRM2, and a two-gun Heavy Machinegun Array.

Any way you look at it, it's hardly "a land full of LAMs and bronys" (sic).

Feck, man. If you play a game set at the dawn of the Fourth Succession War, even full on LAMs are canonical (if rare).

The Goliath in the starter box didn't have a turret. No level 1 or 2 mech has a turret. Ever the classic Marauder looks like it should have a turret, yet doesn't.

Plenty of things in Battletech exist in universe but don't exist in game. Some exist in game as experimental or optional additions. Mech turrets are one of those things. Shields are another. Acid head SRMs yet another.

All exist to have fun with. Most are annoying outside of the occasional goofy game.

Put it another way.

MRMs. Medium Range Missles. Dummy fire. They lack any guidance whatsoever. They're also dirt cheap to produce. Broken down, they only weigh a few pounds each.

So you attack the Draconis Combine. Originator of the MRM. You go through a lightly populated city. The partisans break out their weaponry. Each window has 2 or 3 citizens pointing their missiles out at you. A small apartment complex is going to be putting out 50 missiles a facing. Project Buildings in the area of hundreds. Worse yet, battletech lacks elevation ranges. Two out of three rulesets for air and ground interactions would allow a town to take out warships in orbit fairly accurately and repeatedly. Given that the firing tube doesn't matter, you could launch the missiles out of one-shot bamboo. Each citizen will be given 4 missiles for the glory of the Combine!

That is all canon, logical, and level 1.5/2.

There's lots of shit in Battletech. Tons of it is goofy. Turrets on mechs? Has never been legitimate in any rulebook since it's inception as Battledroids in the early eighties. It's always been treated as experimental and magical faults prevent it from achieving success, and that's the way I like it.

.... until they had specific rules for Quads. Then, yes, the Goliath DID have a turret.

And just because something isn't Level 1 / Basic Rules, doesn't mean it's "goofy". No matter how stridently you insist otherwise.

question:
why would specific quad rules mean that it has a turret?
the only thing the turret changes is that a torso mounted weapon can only fire into the front firing arc . .
with a turret you can fire it in the side and rear arc, that is all it does . .

Quad rules have nothing to do with turrets. I'm not sure why you think they do. And level 2 isn't goofy, just more complicated, and can sometimes lead to unbalanced issues. Level 3 is strictly experimental, or nearly unique. It's where the rules can swing so much that even the original team knew they couldn't balance it well.

The quad-specific rules eliminate Torso Twists from Quads, but then allow the designer to allocate a Critical space to turn one of the Side Torso sections into a Turret, which can Torso Twist. And, I think (haven't read those old rules in forever) that the turret can twist far enough to give the same firing arc of arm-mounted weapons. But obviously, only to one side or the other at a time.

IOW, to put it briefly: "torso twists work differently for Quads, and here's how: [...]".

No they don't. =/

Quads advantages are more armor, easier piloting, and skitter movement. Their disadvantages are lack of good firing arcs. I'd love to be proven wrong though, if you can find a book and page reference that says as much. (Tournament level or better, of course.)

I don't own any books that old. And I'm not going to buy one on eBay just to show you a picture of it, either.