SR4A, p.222 states that Drones are DR3, security vehicles are DR4 and milspec is DR5. Because Drones are also vehicles, would a MilSpec Drone be DR3 or DR5?

Milspec Drones start at DR 5.

"Drone" just means "Small(ish) vehicle with no pilot accomodations".

Uh oh.

What? It's the truth. Drones are treated as a subset of Vehicle, by the rules.

O_o

I cringe every time I see a listing of a Doberman drone with a Riggers Cocoon.

Miri... that's based on a very questionable reading of the drone rules. The drone and vehicle sections state that drones can't take passengers... (and they also get higher armor limitations than passenger vehicles). In fact the section of the rules intentionally states that vehicles and large PASSENGER drones don't come with rigger adaptation but can have it added. (i'm guessing that's a reference to automated busses and the like in the mainbook).

Then you run into other problems like some drones are designed to carry passengers... example... crashcart (comes with built-in valkyrie module... step beyond a mere rigger cocoon) or that motorized wheelchair. But those drones tend to be large....

Their argument basically comes down to this... the rigger coccoon is a valid modification... therefor i can add it and add a passenger. My take has always been if you have a car which seats 5... you add a rigger cocoon you don't get a 6th seat... you exchange one of the seats for the armored box.

oh, this is easy.

just require that they also get "special machinery/storage" (for storing and transporting a metahuman, which the drone is not inherently designed for) and "extra entry/exit point" (because obviously, just because there's a rigger's cocoon inside, doesn't mean they get to teleport to it). problem solved.

The 'extra entry/exit point" I could see, but adding the rigger cocoon on its own would probably add the space for a metahuman--since there are no 'seats' normally, adding the cocoon could reasonably be assumed to add one.

Exactly what we mean by questionable reading. Combat drones are NOT designed to take passengers... even WITH a rigger cocoon. Most of them don't have the payload! (look at older editions where cargo factor and weight was listed). Only some of the largest drones like the ares air supply could even think about devoting enough cargo to carry a passenger.

The rules state this numerous times in numerous places including arsenal.. that drones aren't made to carry passengers.

Nice to see others picking up on the suggestion to use special storage/equipment... which will eat up 2 mod slots or so on it's own if they want the cocoon as well.

no, not really. you still need the cargo space. unless your rigger cocoon exists on a metaplane or something like that, in which case good luck controlling your drone from it.

you can add a rigger cocoon, but that doesn't magically create space where none existed previously. at best, if you get a rigger cocoon, and nothing else, i'd presume that means you've basically got a rigger cocoon attached to the drone by a cable. or maybe strapped onto the back or something like that.

if you want your drone to have the storage space and modifications to take a human inside it, then no, that doesn't come with a rigger cocoon as a bundle package (or at least, if it does... it's not all happening for the same cost as just adding the cocoon. you might get like a 5% discount on getting all the necessary mods installed, depending on who's doing it and how much they like you i guess)

as was already explained, if you have a car and you install a rigger cocoon, that doesn't mean that the car suddenly has extra space available for the rigger cocoon. why would it mean that for any other vehicle?

first, you must create the space. in the tables, the mod is called special machinery, but in the long descriptions it's called special machinery/storage. in this case, you're adding a storage space for a metahuman. this pretty much puts all the details in the hands of the GM, mind you... in the majority of cases, i'd say you probably need a facility to perform this kind of mod, because it probably involves modifying *everything* on the inside of the drone.

Honestly, I think it'd just be too micro-managing (at the expense of the fun of the game) to rule that restrictive.

The answer to that is called "GM Discretion and Rule 0".

See, I just would not allow a metahuman-sized space on or in anything less than a Large drone - period, no debate, end of discussion, this-ruling-is-final. And then, it would most definitely be ON, as in, EXTERNAL (making called shots against the passenger very easy to call/justify). And never for a troll, period, too bad.

I might, MIGHT, allow a Pixie-sized passenger / Pilot space on the interior of a Large drone, or the exterior of a Medium drone (see above). But it'd cost an arm and a leg, because absolutely nothing aside from the electronics would be off-the-shelf-able. Everything would be custom. Or I might allow a Gnome to go external on a Medium drone, too. But it'd still cost an arm and a (Beta grade) leg.

i'm not convinced it's "micro-managing" to tell a player that they're going to need to pay an awful lot (and forget about adding any other modifications) to take a stock drone that is at best only slightly larger than them to begin with and fit themselves inside it with a super-tough armored cocoon around them.

I went with extra entry, special storage, and rigger cocoon for my Missions pixie's Otomo.

Just so there'd be no argument. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

For a full size rigger cocoon, though, the cocoon is likely larger than the drone and should be treated as such - more a mobile cocoon than a drone with a cocoon mod. And at that point you would likely be better served using a Horseman PMV anyway.




-k

Missions pay out enough that you can actually afford a 24R, 150k drone?

Eventually, yes. Took me, I think, a season and a half? And had a couple of big windfalls during play where the team made off with something they could fence for a large payout.

It probably helps that the character in question can chuck Negotiate dice with mid-20s dice pool.

Of course, now the character cries every time the drone takes damage. It's expensive to repair!



-k

At 10% base price per damage point.. I imagine so. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

Would you classify an Ares Air-Supply (TOD, p.7) as a military, security or standard drone?

I'd classify it as an obsolete (or obsolescent... whichever) military drone but a really old one so maybe verging on security drone. Though to be honest... since it is a cargo hauler and not a combat vehicle... there is a good case it's only a security or even general purpose drone.

So DR5 to start... but dropping to DR4 because it's old. It also shows up in This Old Drone before being reprinted in the new Runner's Black Book compendium of them. Also used car lot, adds rules for upgrading old drones to bring them up to spec... IIRC it was pay 25% of the drone cost and some mechanic time to rebuild & replace the old parts of the drone. Really if it's security or even GP and obsolete it's still worth the money with that... (spend the 25% extra of it's low base cost amounting to an extra $2000 to make it modern... then you can upgrade it's response/firewall/etc. by up to 2 like normal with the normal upgrade rules).



It's been around since my copy of Rigger 2 (and maybe even the original Black Book) under assorted product names (redball express IIRC) but always clearly the same drone.

In any case talk to your GM... even if it isn't military you can upgrade it fairly easily.

Well, i am the GM, but i am unsure what classification i should give it.

I'd probably say just split the difference then... call it an obsolescent security drone. DR3

Security Drones are DR4... then DR3 for obsolescent quality it comes with... (if you allow the used car lot bits for upgrading old stuff... they can spend an extra $2125 to upgrade it to DR4 and remove the obsolescent.. or leave it at 3 and upgrade things by up to 2 points piecemeal as normal).

Fair warning though... I love this drone... it's a killer... the one thing I dislike about SR4 drones is their operational time bits... this drone used to be very useful but with a short operational time based on it's small fuel reserve and the high consumption rate of fuel for flying vehicles (again a place the VTOL came in real nice since you could land it and idle it to save gas). But with SR4... drones are assumed to have enough juice to go 6 hours... but with 6 bod... this thing can take 6 modifications... enough for 2 weapon mounts or a single reinforced mount... drones are limited to 6x bod in armor as well. So with just half it's mod slots... (modification slots == body or 4 whichever is higher), you can put either 2 light guns or a heavy gun and upgrade it's armor to *18*. It literally turns into the A-10 warthog of drones which normally max out at 12 points armor.

I also like this drone, and i am fully aware of its capabilities - but an obviously armed and armored illegal drone in Manhatten warrants an SAM/whatever strike on it ^^

Shooting down drones over urban areas is just asking for trouble. You'd get sued by the owner of whatever it hits, the family of whoever it hits, the owner if it wasn't actually illegal, plus whoever it landed near (for "emotional trauma").

obviously, the solution is to use a big enough gun that there's no drone to crash into anything (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(or, more likely, if they've determined it's an illegal drone, hack it, and put it someplace secure. congratulations, you just gave the authorities a brand new drone to hunt you down with (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ).