IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

5 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
CanRay
post Jan 13 2013, 06:31 AM
Post #1


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 14,358
Joined: 2-December 07
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Member No.: 14,465



New, from CGL (who else?) is The Way Of The Samurai!

Make your slicer-dicer-shooter even more slicey-dicey-shooty!!!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Smirnov
post Jan 13 2013, 09:50 AM
Post #2


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 239
Joined: 16-September 10
From: Moscow, Russia
Member No.: 19,051



Just bought it. Haven't read the fluff yet, moved to the crunch, and it's really good. I like the idea that prerequisites suggest that if you want take the quality, you already have these traits/implants. It saves one part of players the need to buy useless traits and helps pointing the other part in the right direction!

But I didn't really get Boosted Reflex besides old school nostalgia. How are they better than present reaction/IP boosters?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lionhearted
post Jan 13 2013, 10:57 AM
Post #3


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,930
Joined: 9-April 05
From: Scandinavian Union
Member No.: 7,310



Any rules for bushido?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tias
post Jan 13 2013, 01:51 PM
Post #4


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 252
Joined: 30-October 09
From: Shadows of Copenhagen
Member No.: 17,824



QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Jan 13 2013, 11:57 AM) *
Any rules for bushido?


I am buying the hell out of this when I get on my own machine, I'll post a quick review later tonight.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
_Pax._
post Jan 13 2013, 02:02 PM
Post #5


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Validating
Posts: 2,492
Joined: 19-April 12
Member No.: 51,818



QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Jan 13 2013, 05:57 AM) *
Any rules for bushido?

No, sorry, doesn't seem to be (unless I missed it in there).

A few qualities that help define your Samurai as one or another of a few archetypal examples (bodyguard, merc, etc), and which require an Essence of less than 3.

A large list of cyberware suites.

Two new implants, inlcuding the return of Boosted Reflexes (yayy?).

...

Pretty much, that's it, crunch-wise. Teh fluff seems to center primarily around Miracle Shooter, and how well it does or doesn't comform to "real life" in the shadows.

... and which makes me wish I could run a game where the PCs weren't shadowrunenrs ... but instead, were just a guild in the Miracle Shooter game, madeof highschool and college age kids. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tias
post Jan 13 2013, 02:21 PM
Post #6


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 252
Joined: 30-October 09
From: Shadows of Copenhagen
Member No.: 17,824



I finished it in a hurry too, heh.

It's mostly fiction and fluff, new positive qualities (in a new "tech-tree" style where you have to have prerequisite abilities, attribues and/or augmentations to take each one) a handful of cybersuites (probably the nicest crunch addition, I really like the gunfighter and heavy artillery platform ones!), a couple of augmentations (literally :/ ) and the last pages are made up of suggestions for a samurai build for each of the metatypes.

To be honest, I'd hoped for a lot more, rules-wise. It'd be an obvious opportunity to add some weapons and gear, and more than just a couple of bits of new cyberware.. Solid fluff and gear for the money otherwise, can one spare the 5 bucks I guess you get your money's worth.

E: and no rules for bushido or indigenous samurai culture - however, fluff and rules on bushido can be found in both Vice and Runner's Companion. From there, one can probably easy extrapolate, try the following links for inspiration:

http://www.aikidofaq.com/essays/index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido:_The_Soul_of_Japan
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Larsine
post Jan 13 2013, 03:27 PM
Post #7


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 647
Joined: 9-September 03
From: Sorø, Denmark
Member No.: 5,604



Boosted Reflexes were already in Shadowrun 2050. Their availability has dropped from 3R to 2R, and the price has dropped from Rating x 20K to 15K/32K/47K.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Smirnov
post Jan 13 2013, 05:33 PM
Post #8


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 239
Joined: 16-September 10
From: Moscow, Russia
Member No.: 19,051



QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Jan 13 2013, 02:57 PM) *
Any rules for bushido?

There's Ronin's Way, it's nice, but nothing too specific
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fatum
post Jan 13 2013, 05:39 PM
Post #9


Runner
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,801
Joined: 2-September 09
From: Moscow, Russia
Member No.: 17,589



Bushido's already in Runner's Companion.

The book looks pretty solid from cursory flipping through it. Cool qualities, seem useful, dunno if worth the cost though.
The only question I have: the Urban Gunfighter cybersuite includes two cyberguns and also two holsters in cyberlegs. Are those for that rare moment when you need four guns at hand at once?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
CanRay
post Jan 13 2013, 06:01 PM
Post #10


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 14,358
Joined: 2-December 07
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Member No.: 14,465



QUOTE (Fatum @ Jan 13 2013, 01:39 PM) *
The only question I have: the Urban Gunfighter cybersuite includes two cyberguns and also two holsters in cyberlegs. Are those for that rare moment when you need four guns at hand at once?
What if it was just one guy with six guns?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tias
post Jan 13 2013, 06:29 PM
Post #11


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 252
Joined: 30-October 09
From: Shadows of Copenhagen
Member No.: 17,824



Well, the arms "only" contain Heavy Pistols, so if you need to pack a little more punch, keep a shortnosed SMG or compact grenade launcher in the thigh holsters! I for one love the mental image of a gunfighter samurai empty two armguns, then pull full guns out of his legs and finish the job.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
CanRay
post Jan 13 2013, 07:59 PM
Post #12


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 14,358
Joined: 2-December 07
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Member No.: 14,465



Heavy Pistols in the arms, Tasers in the holsters is another suggestion. Not everything has to be deadly violent.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Critias
post Jan 13 2013, 09:19 PM
Post #13


Freelance Elf
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 7,324
Joined: 30-September 04
From: Texas
Member No.: 6,714



Hey guys, hopefully folks are enjoying it. It was a funny little project to write up, Devon got to roll up his sleeves and do a hojillion cyberware suites, and we're both glad to see it finally released, I'm sure. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
QUOTE (Smirnov @ Jan 13 2013, 05:50 AM) *
But I didn't really get Boosted Reflex besides old school nostalgia. How are they better than present reaction/IP boosters?

Not everything has to be "better" than existing gear. In this instance, it's meant to be something that bridges the gap between "Combat Drug Guy" and "Wired Reflexes Guy." It's the way-behind-SOTA, dirt cheap, gutter-sammie boosterware option, basically. Second-stringer chrome, but a step up from the guys who just shoot up or puff an inhaler before a big fight.

As far as additional text on bushido, I shied away from that mostly because it's already been covered (and even has a Quality, albeit an already-optional one). I wasn't out to stomp on the toes of Runner's Companion, so much as to offer more than one interpretation of a street samurai. I wanted to show that not every character that fills that "mundane combat guy, dripping with chrome" niche is a Japanophile who follows that particular code (which I tried to hit home in the chatter with one of Jackpoint's few actual "street samurai" types, Hard Exit).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Sengir
post Jan 13 2013, 09:28 PM
Post #14


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 5,088
Joined: 3-October 09
From: Kohle, Stahl und Bier
Member No.: 17,709



QUOTE (Smirnov @ Jan 13 2013, 10:50 AM) *
But I didn't really get Boosted Reflex besides old school nostalgia. How are they better than present reaction/IP boosters?

The way it used to be (not sure about SR 2050) was that Boosted Reflexes were far cheaper and Essence-friendly than the real thing, but irreversibly installed and incompatible with some other ware. So certainly an alternative for the rank-and-file, though rather uncommon for samurai...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tias
post Jan 13 2013, 09:31 PM
Post #15


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 252
Joined: 30-October 09
From: Shadows of Copenhagen
Member No.: 17,824



QUOTE (Critias @ Jan 13 2013, 10:19 PM) *
Hey guys, hopefully folks are enjoying it. It was a funny little project to write up, Devon got to roll up his sleeves and do a hojillion cyberware suites, and we're both glad to see it finally released, I'm sure. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Not everything has to be "better" than existing gear. In this instance, it's meant to be something that bridges the gap between "Combat Drug Guy" and "Wired Reflexes Guy." It's the way-behind-SOTA, dirt cheap, gutter-sammie boosterware option, basically. Second-stringer chrome, but a step up from the guys who just shoot up or puff an inhaler before a big fight.


It's fine to see rules for boosters and it's good as a flavor option too, but I really did expect to see more weapons, augmentations and gear after the brilliant cybersuite section (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif) Fiction and commentary is well and good, but the sections vary on how well they "deliver", in my opinion..
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hermit
post Jan 14 2013, 03:20 AM
Post #16


The King In Yellow
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 6,922
Joined: 26-February 05
From: JWD
Member No.: 7,121



Well. I DID nejoy reading this and it DOES have it's upside. teh writing's good, the intro fiction fun, I like most of the new stuff, and hey, it'S the guys from the Street Samurai Catalogue! And fluff names for cyberware! I'm a sucker for these things, so yeah, I like this. Chipped reflexes are back, finally, and there's a hand spur I'm not sure does anything ordinary spurs cannot, but hey, maybe there is some hidden use for it. Using some of the names dropped in Augmentation and never given life with stats also was a nice touch. I'd hoped for more cyberware, but hey, I'm happy about what I get. Countrary to Tiaz, though, I'm quite happy no space was wasted with yet more guns. More guns is about the last thing Shadowrun needs, with added up close to a hundred statted weapons that largely all do the same. I'm actually quite sick of it and would not have paid for this if it was yet another file of pew-pew.

The stuff's rules-wise usable, far as I can see; the new qualities with prerequisites are kind of at odds with the rest of the system but actually not a bad idea.

However, I have two complaints.

First, why a gear book so late in the edition cycle? And with another (Eurowar Antiques) looming, why announce YET ANOTHER gear book? I don't really see how this makes sense. Not that I complain much, but these would have been a lot more helpful earlier in the edition cycle. Why has there never been something like this for hackers, maybe around the time when Digital Grimoire came out? Why hasn't THIS been there at the time of Way of the Adept?

And second, editing. This thing smells "editing didn't happen/was rushed at 3 AM". Several cybersuites have different names in their headers and fluff textx (Ares Bodyguard vs. Bodyguard Pro; UO Glenn Space Survivor vs. Armstrong Survivor). Minor glitches in reused cyberware names, okay, I'm probably the only one to notice the T317a should be TL317a, but this is avoidable and needs to be avoided. If you change a name, for instance, replace it using strg+H in Word. It's not rocket science, and it will not have the player wondering whether this was edited at all, which makes this product seem lower quality than it is.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Patrick Goodman
post Jan 14 2013, 04:17 AM
Post #17


Tilting at Windmills
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,636
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Amarillo, TX, CAS
Member No.: 388



It took longer on the back end to get this thing together; Peter Andrew was busy juggling things like day jobs and impending fatherhood. I don't know what else might have been going on, but as a father with a day job, I know that kind of thing takes a boatload of time away from fun things, like Shadowrun. The original intent was for it to come out considerably before the announcement for SR5; ditto for Eurowar Antitques, which shares much of the same checkered history for much the same reasons.

Some of those cybersuite names and stuff, I'm going to take the bullet for, since I was doing a lot of the proofreading and those slipped past me. Sorry.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NiL_FisK_Urd
post Jan 14 2013, 09:28 AM
Post #18


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 881
Joined: 13-November 11
From: Vienna, Austria
Member No.: 43,494



Does the merc quality stack with a black market pipeline?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Smirnov
post Jan 14 2013, 09:45 AM
Post #19


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 239
Joined: 16-September 10
From: Moscow, Russia
Member No.: 19,051



QUOTE (Critias @ Jan 14 2013, 01:19 AM) *
Not everything has to be "better" than existing gear. In this instance, it's meant to be something that bridges the gap between "Combat Drug Guy" and "Wired Reflexes Guy." It's the way-behind-SOTA, dirt cheap, gutter-sammie boosterware option, basically. Second-stringer chrome, but a step up from the guys who just shoot up or puff an inhaler before a big fight.

Yeah, but it has to have it's perks compared to the other things. I mean, every character asks himself the question 'why would I install this piece of 'ware?' if he has a choice. If he has none, that's the other story of course. But if there's a choice, then the implant should offer some benefits in order to be considered. No one would willingly instal a thing that is weak, costly and drains a lot of Essence if there are cheaper and/or better replacements.
With Boosted Reflexes you pay 1.8 Essence and 47K nuyen for +1 IP. Wired Reflexes give the same for 2 Essence and 11K (way cheaper). Synaptic Booster gives +1 IP for 80K and 0.5 Essence (way less). Of course, biowrare is expensive, but Alphaware Wired Reflexes would cost 22K and 1.6 Essence, which is two times cheaper than Boosted Reflexes and burns less Essence.

Move-by-Wire is old too, but for 50K, 2 Essence and a nasty side effect it gives not only +1 IP, but also dodge, Reaction and skillrig. Which is a great example of an implant that is good on every side and is worth its cost, essence and negative quality.

Now, if Boosted Reflexes were, for example, were compatible with drugs, that would give them an edge.

PS: will say this again, great job with the qualities! They are really useful for the player who can't find their way.


QUOTE (hermit @ Jan 14 2013, 07:20 AM) *
And second, editing. This thing smells "editing didn't happen/was rushed at 3 AM". Several cybersuites have different names in their headers and fluff textx (Ares Bodyguard vs. Bodyguard Pro; UO Glenn Space Survivor vs. Armstrong Survivor). Minor glitches in reused cyberware names, okay, I'm probably the only one to notice the T317a should be TL317a, but this is avoidable and needs to be avoided. If you change a name, for instance, replace it using strg+H in Word. It's not rocket science, and it will not have the player wondering whether this was edited at all, which makes this product seem lower quality than it is.

Ares Bodyguard and Bodyguard Pro are two different suit. Pro is Alphaware set of the basic Bodyguard
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Sengir
post Jan 14 2013, 12:21 PM
Post #20


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 5,088
Joined: 3-October 09
From: Kohle, Stahl und Bier
Member No.: 17,709



QUOTE (Smirnov @ Jan 14 2013, 10:45 AM) *
With Boosted Reflexes you pay 1.8 Essence and 47K nuyen for +1 IP. Wired Reflexes give the same for 2 Essence and 11K (way cheaper). Synaptic Booster gives +1 IP for 80K and 0.5 Essence (way less).

OK, those numbers are really WAY off and leave nothing of the niche Boosted Reflexes used to fill. Here is how it looked liked in 3rd Ed:
Boosted Reflexes:
0.5 Ess / 15,000 ¥
1.25 Ess / 40,000 ¥
2.8 Ess /90,000 ¥
Wired Reflexes:
2 Ess / 55,000 ¥
3 Ess / 165,000 ¥
5 Ess / 500,00 ¥

Disadvantages: Far lower REA bonus (+0/+1/+2 vs. +2/+4/+6), incompatible with other initiative enhancers and the Control Rig (which was absolutely essential for riggers), and the installation was PERMANENT, not even upgrades possible.


PS: And MBW is still considered cutting edge (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Larsine
post Jan 14 2013, 12:51 PM
Post #21


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 647
Joined: 9-September 03
From: Sorø, Denmark
Member No.: 5,604



QUOTE (Sengir @ Jan 14 2013, 01:21 PM) *
OK, those numbers are really WAY off and leave nothing of the niche Boosted Reflexes used to fill. Here is how it looked liked in 3rd Ed:
Boosted Reflexes:
0.5 Ess / 15,000 ¥
1.25 Ess / 40,000 ¥
2.8 Ess /90,000 ¥
Wired Reflexes:
2 Ess / 55,000 ¥
3 Ess / 165,000 ¥
5 Ess / 500,00 ¥

Disadvantages: Far lower REA bonus (+0/+1/+2 vs. +2/+4/+6), incompatible with other initiative enhancers and the Control Rig (which was absolutely essential for riggers), and the installation was PERMANENT, not even upgrades possible.


PS: And MBW is still considered cutting edge (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

But for SR4 prices, essence and bonuses have changed:

CODE
Boosted Reflexes
Rating Essence Cost Initiative IP
1      0.9     15K¥ +1         -
2      1.8     32K¥ +2         +1
3      2.7     47K¥ +3         +1

Wired Reflexes
Rating Essence Cost Reaction IP
1      2       ?K¥  +1       +1
2      3       ?K¥  +2       +2
3      5       ?K¥  +3       +3

I can't remember the SR4 cost for WR, and do not have my book on me.

But you are right, his numbers are way off, since you only need Boosted Reflexes 2 to get +1 IP, which us roughly equal to WR1, which will cost you 2 points of Essence and likely more than 11K¥
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NiL_FisK_Urd
post Jan 14 2013, 12:54 PM
Post #22


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 881
Joined: 13-November 11
From: Vienna, Austria
Member No.: 43,494



Wired Reflexes:
11.000
32.000
100.000
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Larsine
post Jan 14 2013, 12:57 PM
Post #23


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 647
Joined: 9-September 03
From: Sorø, Denmark
Member No.: 5,604



QUOTE (NiL_FisK_Urd @ Jan 14 2013, 01:54 PM) *
Wired Reflexes:
11.000
32.000
100.000

OK I'm proven wrong... again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NiL_FisK_Urd
post Jan 14 2013, 01:21 PM
Post #24


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 881
Joined: 13-November 11
From: Vienna, Austria
Member No.: 43,494



I found some errors in the Calculation of the "Universal Omnitech Infiltr8R" suite.
1. Essence should be 2,07 (forgot to add the chameleon modification essence cost)
2. Availablity of a R3 Chameleon Dermal Sheath is 22, the cybersuite has an avail of 20.

Notes:
The nanocybernetic versions are cheaper than the normal cyberware, why are only the dynamic handprints used? Using the nanocybernetic equivalents would reduce cost to 81900nY and 2,16 Essence.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Sengir
post Jan 14 2013, 01:56 PM
Post #25


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 5,088
Joined: 3-October 09
From: Kohle, Stahl und Bier
Member No.: 17,709



QUOTE (Larsine @ Jan 14 2013, 01:51 PM) *
But for SR4 prices, essence and bonuses have changed:

But obviously not equally: Wires cost a fifth of what they used to and ESS remains the same, Boosted Reflexes cost between the same and half of their old price (depending on Rating) and ESS on R. 1 is nearly twice of what it used to be. So by the numbers Boosted Reflexes are always inferior, even as budget choice Wires are better.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

5 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 16th May 2025 - 09:06 PM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.