 Popular Vehicles and group assets, How does your groups dead with this? |
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 Feb 18 2013, 06:31 AM
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#26
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Immortal Elf  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465  |
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Feb 18 2013, 12:47 AM)  At this point Mungo really needs to show up in 5th edition as an NPC, even if it's only as "that guy" other runners have stories about. Doubt that'd happen. I mean, hell, it would be like Bubba The Love Troll becoming Canon.
-k |
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Feb 18 2013, 06:45 AM
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#27
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Running Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,003 Joined: 3-May 11 From: Brisbane Australia Member No.: 29,391 |
Don't they run together? Also if Fastjack is on the way out he will need a replacement (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Feb 18 2013, 01:39 PM
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#28
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,018 Joined: 3-July 10 Member No.: 18,786 |
QUOTE (Shortstraw @ Feb 18 2013, 07:45 AM) Don't they run together? Also if Fastjack is on the way out he will need a replacement (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I want to be a poster on MungoPoint. |
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Feb 18 2013, 02:09 PM
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#29
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Where can you find the complete and unedited collection of all of Bubba teh Love Troll's award winning exploits?
On MungoPoint! Friendz Mungo teh 1337 todaz! |
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Feb 18 2013, 03:22 PM
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#30
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,018 Joined: 3-July 10 Member No.: 18,786 |
Okay, here's a random wish for SR5: a sidebox that lists various social networks and online places with descriptions about them. Include Shadowland, P2.0, couple of others, and MungoPoint. I want MungoPoint to be canon, even if it only gets a small mention.
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Feb 19 2013, 06:02 PM
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#31
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,318 Joined: 31-December 06 Member No.: 10,502 |
QUOTE (Mantis @ Feb 16 2013, 04:18 PM) If a player has modified his ride to be used for shadowrunning then I don't mind taking a swipe at when they use it for shadowrunning. The cost to repair vehicles is quite low (1% of base price/box) and so long as it isn't destroyed they can always fix it up again, just like so long as you aren't killed you get healed to fight again. For us, vehicle theft has always been a situation/opportunity thing, in that if we need a ride and something is convenient, we'll take it but won't keep it. Especially high end stuff like helicopters. If a job requires the team to have aircraft but the GM has not made it possible to get them then the team is well within rights to refuse the job. One conceit of the game is that you are generally hired to do jobs you are actually capable of. The exception being when it is a smoke screen designed to fail but generally if you get a job it is because you are the right team for that job. Forcing the players to bankrupt characters to get gear to do a job is kind of a dick move on the part of the GM as such jobs rarely will cover the cost of the gear. Mr. J: 'Yeah I need you to fly into the jungle and pick up this guy. Pay is 25,000¥.' Team: 'Will you provide the aircraft?' Mr. J: 'Nope. Buy one.' Team: 'Well then fuck you Mr. Johnson.' Actually that is one other thing I really ought to mention ( and have done). I'd actively have a J pay more for missions requiring a vehicle (fewer runners able to do it, and high costs associated with it.) Prior to the players having vehicles, I would occasionally have a J provide something. Actually even after they had vehicles I'd on occasion have a J provide them one they were supposed to use for some reason or other. Part of the reason for that is that vehicles add a new twist to a session and are fun. You'll notice virtually all the fiction for SR and the genre in general feature vehicles. But what's even more fun that flying around in 'em? BLOWING THEM UP! And I find it's it's more enjoyable all around if the flaming wreckage the rigger is desperately trying to steer over that river before the team bails out wasn't purchased with team funds. |
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Feb 19 2013, 08:05 PM
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#32
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 935 Joined: 2-September 10 Member No.: 19,000 |
QUOTE I have been wondering about this, as I am very fond of helicopters, but maybe would be too expensive for a starting character. It's possible, but you wind up with a shitty character and a shitty helicopter. I have been obsessed with this build since SR4 came out, yet to find a way to make it work at starting levels. Helicopters are just too pricy. |
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Feb 20 2013, 01:17 AM
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#33
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Old Man Jones Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,415 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699 |
My rigger has achieved air superiority affordably only because she's the size of a breadbox.
Economy of scale. Or something like that. -k |
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Feb 20 2013, 02:31 AM
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#34
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Neophyte Runner Group: Validating Posts: 2,283 Joined: 12-October 07 Member No.: 13,662 |
1% per damage box is still pretty pricey for many things...
That copter with the vehicle mods and all the like... if it's say 1million after upgrades... 1% is 10,000. So if that sucker gets the paint scratched for 3 points... that's a 30k repair bill. Lets say half that if you can get the parts and do it yourself... but still that's probably the riggers paycheck for the mission if he's lucky. 1% isn't much on a 5k or 10k bike... but on big stuff it gets pricey. So yeah... generally I go with the... if you really need a 'copter for the mission... steal it! Then don't cry too much when the GM doesn't let you keep it (blows it up... gotta bail before the fuzz tracks it down... etc. etc. etc.). |
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Feb 20 2013, 02:52 AM
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#35
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 514 Joined: 31-July 08 From: Midwest, USA ~50mi NW of B.F.E. Member No.: 16,184 |
As a GM, if I want my players to have some big ticket item like a helicopter, VTOL or ship, then it becomes a plot device that is given to them. I've ran a couple of games that the team had a VTOL that they used for jobs cause I wanted the game to be a globe trotting adventure and the team had to be able to travel to some very remote areas of the world. Pricing things like gas and basic maintenance just come from a team lifestyle. I only make them pay for major repairs that come directly from combat engagements but most of the time they are savvy enough to negtotiate the repairs like that into the contract. The Johnson is hiring the team partly because of their high ticket item and putting it at risk so he becomes partially liable for it.
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Feb 20 2013, 04:42 AM
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#36
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,102 Joined: 23-August 09 From: Vancouver, Canada Member No.: 17,538 |
QUOTE (Falconer @ Feb 19 2013, 06:31 PM) 1% per damage box is still pretty pricey for many things... That copter with the vehicle mods and all the like... if it's say 1million after upgrades... 1% is 10,000. So if that sucker gets the paint scratched for 3 points... that's a 30k repair bill. Lets say half that if you can get the parts and do it yourself... but still that's probably the riggers paycheck for the mission if he's lucky. 1% isn't much on a 5k or 10k bike... but on big stuff it gets pricey. So yeah... generally I go with the... if you really need a 'copter for the mission... steal it! Then don't cry too much when the GM doesn't let you keep it (blows it up... gotta bail before the fuzz tracks it down... etc. etc. etc.). The rule (pg 104 Aresenal) is 1% of base price, not the price after mods. So the only way you get 10,000¥ per box is when the vehicle cost 1,000,000¥. If you can afford a 1,000,000¥ vehicle, then you can afford to fix it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) Even fixing 10 boxes is only 10% of the base price and if that level of damage is common for your ride, you need to learn to dodge or something. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) |
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Feb 20 2013, 06:27 AM
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#37
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
QUOTE (Mantis @ Feb 20 2013, 12:42 AM) The rule (pg 104 Aresenal) is 1% of base price, not the price after mods. So the only way you get 10,000¥ per box is when the vehicle cost 1,000,000¥. If you can afford a 1,000,000¥ vehicle, then you can afford to fix it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) Even fixing 10 boxes is only 10% of the base price and if that level of damage is common for your ride, you need to learn to dodge or something. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) "Damnit Flick, chip the book 'How not to crash' or something!" "Mungo was supposed to pirate it for me. Instead I got the whole collection of recipes for ice cream used today. I'm never eating from the Good Humor Ork again!"
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Feb 20 2013, 06:40 AM
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#38
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,102 Joined: 23-August 09 From: Vancouver, Canada Member No.: 17,538 |
That Mungo. Always messing up. But what can you do?
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Feb 20 2013, 04:51 PM
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#39
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Neophyte Runner Group: Validating Posts: 2,283 Joined: 12-October 07 Member No.: 13,662 |
Actually the rules do not define the term 'base cost' it's only used in the repair rules. To me the base cost of the repair rules is the 'vehicle cost' plus extra applicable costs from mods. Lacking any other definition this makes the most sense to me.
Throughout the vehicle section... the term is 'vehicle cost' when they refer to the bare bones vehicle cost. This term comes up all the time when pricing & modifying vehicles... If you've scratched the paint and the vehicle has reflective/chameleon/signature masking... you can bet damn well the 'base cost' includes the extra enhancement. On a big ticket vehicle... this probably isn't significant... but on smaller ones these can double or triple the cost of the car and rightly should increase the repair costs accordingly. |
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Feb 20 2013, 05:12 PM
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#40
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,102 Joined: 23-August 09 From: Vancouver, Canada Member No.: 17,538 |
Then why didn't they say total cost? To me base cost is what it cost before doing something to it. The starting point. If you wish to interpret it your way then , yes 1% is quite expensive. My way it is not.
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Feb 20 2013, 05:58 PM
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#41
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Neophyte Runner Group: Validating Posts: 2,283 Joined: 12-October 07 Member No.: 13,662 |
No... I'm saying the rules as written are vague. It's your GM's call how he reads that. I read that as base vehicle value... or baseline value... or base repair cost. Because 'vehicle cost' is already used elsewhere throughout the rules referring to what you said... so why not just say it again if that's what is meant? What else are they going to put in there 'vehicle cost' again which would exactly what you say... or use a different word to avoid confusion. (and in true SR editorial fashion create extra confusion by choosing an ambiguous word with no clarification).
Most of the vehicle mods if you haven't noticed are dirt cheap compared to the cost of a 1 million vehicle. And will do little to change the repair costs... It's only on 'cheap vehicles that mods start to dominate the costs that it could become an issue. But those are the ones where it makes sense... like when your bulldog has had it's chameleon coated paint job lovingly massaged by the gangers bullets enough to do actual damage to the vehicle. Also remember parts for repair are generally only half the repair cost if you do the labor yourself. |
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Feb 20 2013, 07:15 PM
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#42
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,102 Joined: 23-August 09 From: Vancouver, Canada Member No.: 17,538 |
I think they chose to use the word 'base' to tell you not to include the price of mods in the cost of repairs. What else could it mean? What else would be added to the cost of the vehicle to change the price from base to something else (total)?
Most vehicle mods are based on body, so regardless of vehicle cost, the bigger the ride the more expensive your interpretation makes it to fix them. If you want to hammer your players for modding up the 'cheap' van and then shoot the thing up and hammer them again to fix it, that is your choice. Also remember that the rule on repairing vehicles is for the parts, not the labour. No half price do it yourself discount. You still need to pay for labour or do it yourself or get a drone to do it as far as Arsenal is concerned. I suggest the GM Mr.Fix-it from RC. QUOTE Vehicle repairs typically require replacement parts that cost an amount equal to 1% of the vehicle’s base cost per box of damage, with the same Availability as the vehicle.
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Feb 23 2013, 03:51 AM
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#43
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,318 Joined: 31-December 06 Member No.: 10,502 |
Threads like this make me really miss having Rigger 3 work easily in the rules.
I guess in this context maybe you could just, as the GM, brew up on your own initiative new vehicles. For perspective, in Rigger 3 you could brew up a bare bones autogyro that seats three, flies like a helicopter, and handles entirely unimpressively in all respects for only 18k new. In essence it would work as a flying fighting platform for the players in the unfortunate instance where you'd get in a fight. But it'd get you from roof to roof. |
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Feb 23 2013, 04:40 AM
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#44
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Target Group: Members Posts: 85 Joined: 14-July 12 Member No.: 53,036 |
QUOTE (sunnyside @ Feb 23 2013, 01:51 PM) For perspective, in Rigger 3 you could brew up a bare bones autogyro that seats three, flies like a helicopter, and handles entirely unimpressively in all respects for only 18k new. In essence it would work as a flying fighting platform for the players in the unfortunate instance where you'd get in a fight. But it'd get you from roof to roof. Just for comparison; Amenities (squatter) and the Icarus Autogyro will seat two for 20,100¥, no mod slots required, nor does it break 12 availability. It also comes with Chameleon Coating and Sig Masking by default. |
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Feb 23 2013, 04:49 AM
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#45
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Neophyte Runner Group: Validating Posts: 2,283 Joined: 12-October 07 Member No.: 13,662 |
Autogyro's don't fly like a helicopter... they don't hover.
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Feb 23 2013, 04:57 AM
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#46
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,102 Joined: 23-August 09 From: Vancouver, Canada Member No.: 17,538 |
Yeah they also don't take off like a helicopter. They need a runway. I find them to be a silly vehicle. All the drawbacks of a plane and helicopter with few of the advantages (needs runway, can't hover, etc). One advantage they seem to have IRL is they are cheaper to operate but since that isn't actually a factor in SR it is irrelevant. Why they made the Wasp an Autogyro when its big brother the Yellowjacket is a helicopter and in past editions they are both helicopters, I don't know. Seems a weird change to make.
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Feb 23 2013, 06:14 AM
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#47
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
QUOTE (Falconer @ Feb 23 2013, 12:49 AM) Autogyro's don't fly like a helicopter... they don't hover. "You have to understand the aerodynamics..." "Shut up."
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Feb 23 2013, 06:16 AM
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#48
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Neophyte Runner Group: Validating Posts: 2,283 Joined: 12-October 07 Member No.: 13,662 |
Actually they're not all that silly.... they fly by autorotation.... their biggest advantage is they have exceptionally short take off and landing and can fly at extremely slow speeds... just not hover.
That also means they have their 'parachute' built in... if the engine cuts out they can autorotate down to a vertical landing. It works a lot better than trying to turn a cessna into a sailplane for landing. Canray: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogyro http://www.auto-gyro.com/en/Gyroplanes/Mer...Tragschraubers/ Please note the ability to 'hover' is never once mentioned... because they can't that requires a powered rotor. A powered rotor requires a tail for thrust to stop the helicopter from spinning itself out of control. |
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Feb 23 2013, 07:31 AM
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#49
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,102 Joined: 23-August 09 From: Vancouver, Canada Member No.: 17,538 |
I read the same wikipedia article before my last post. I still find them silly. None of the advantages listed have any game effect (any aircraft can be made VSTOL in the game) and there are no stall speeds listed for aircraft. If there were rules for auto-rotation, that would also be an advantage but there isn't. I find them silly in the game as there is no real reason to use one as they can't hold more than 1 person, they don't have the best stats and they aren't all that cheap. Your second link shows the advantages of this type of air-frame but none of that is represented in game.
In the real world the only place they are used outside the hobby pilot is by military or police that want a cheap to operate aircraft. All commercial forays with them have failed (so claims wikipedia). You could say they were included in game for completeness sake but really, with the vehicle rules as they are, there isn't much point. In addition, most people don't even know what the heck they are and have to look them up. |
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Feb 23 2013, 11:53 AM
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#50
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
About the Wasp inexplicably becoming an autogyro, it's not impossible to imagine that when a model year changed, they made the new one an autogyro instead of a chopper. Can't imagine why, but it's not impossible.
Anyway, the best use for an autogyro is to play a Crimson Skies campaign. Get yourselves a big, armored, armed zepplin, outfit it with plane-launching equipment, and fly down the carribbean way, go out-Kane Kane. |
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