A number of designs exist under the "autogyro" umbrella. There were huge ones and tiny ones. Ones with a rotor that just sits there until you start going down a runway, and ones where you can divert power to the rotor in order to take off vertically, though when going forward they rely on autogyration.

In Rigger3 they imagined them as the little hobby pilot ones with a powered rotor. So you can't make 'em big, and they seriously limit the weight you can lift, but they have a straight up VTOL profile by default. So while I think the models in real life aren't good hoverers (I think they build up inertia in the rotor to allow a vertical take off), for simplicity and a bit of credit for the future I let my players just use them as a VTOL per RAW.


If they changed autogyros to a VSTOL profile in 4th I guess I didn't notice and just injected what I remembered from Rigger3. Their stats do make them seem "bigger" in 4th.

Actually the powered rotor doesn't allow them to take off vertically it only shortens their takeoff runway distance.

The problem with a powered rotor is as soon as your wheels leave the ground it torques the vehicle into an uncontrollable spin (newton's 3rd). The technical problem for helicopters wasn't a big enough engine to lift itself... it was the controls needed to handle the torqueing and gyroscopic effects.

An unpowered rotor works by the autogyro starts moving forward... this causes air to move up through the rotor... this causes the rotor to spin... as the rotor spins it develops lift. So the first part of your takeoff roll is simply to get the rotor spinning fast enough to lift you.. with a powered rotor this simply starts the rotor spinning before you're moving... but you need to turn off the power assist when you leave the ground and rely on forward motion to keep air flowing through the rotor. It's not VTOL... by design it's VSTOL. (very short take off and landing).

The low speed handling bonus comes because the 'airfoil' of the rotor is always moving into the air faster than the plane itself to generate lift unlike a fixed wing plane... There's another aerodynamic problem which comes up at higher speeds... one side of the rotor is moving into the oncoming wind... while the other is moving backwards relative to the wind... at this point only one side of the rotor generates lift and the other doesn't... it limits their upper speed of operation.


But I stand by my view... I don't see the autogyro as being a problem in game... I think they make a lot of sense... very short takeoff runs mean you can takeoff and land in the space of a football field... as opposed to needing an airport. If you need a small 'cheap' flying machine suitable for a runner... they're not a bad pick. The ultra-light types would easily fit in the back of truck or trailer as well for covert transportation.

Yup. Retreating blade stall.

While I see that you get the concept, I don't think you're giving the hobby models enough credit. Here lemmi see what pops up on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RPYWmdv174

That said, true hover would be hard for the reasons you say without either sufficient forward motion or a headwind. However it doesn't take much of either.

Sunnyside:
Exactly my point... notice how he didn't go straight up and down... he must develop forward airspeed as fast as he can after leaving the ground... or he'll come right back down as fast as he went up.

If you're more interested in that topic...
http://www.cartercopters.com/faq
look at the jump takeoff...


It's not a true hover if it needs a headwind!!!! Airspeed != groundspeed !!!!
A true hover is performed with no airspeed whatsoever... Though I have seen sailplanes perform 'vtol' landings into a heavy headwind... (about 35 knots with gusts to 45)... I have no doubt any plane with a sufficiently low stall speed can pull it off provided the wind and wind alone can maintain enough airspeed.

All valid points about the autogyros.

I am impressed at those videos above, becuse the need for space for those ultralights to take of and land is soooooo small, that (given skill) they could use rooftops helipads, ships helipads and so on.

But, from a game balance perspective, I wonder why the writers decided that some aircraft were specifically autogyros, without giving any specific rules for them.

Example: If I say aircraft "X" is a helicopper, we all know it can hover, it's common sense, and can be used to deploy rappeling SWAT squads. On the other hand, if the aircraft in question were a plane (without any special stuff, like VTOL...), we know that thing can't be used that way. Now, how about autogyros? How the game rules and scenario defines them?

I personally interpret "autogyro" either as an intented in-game limitation to the aircraft, or as a silly writer mistake.

Sage2000: You want to know why the writers decided that some aircraft were specifically autogyros?

Because they remembered that they worked for one of the bastard-children of FASA and remembered playing Crimson Skies back in the day and were all "Ooooh, autogyros are awesome!"

That's the thought process that went into it.

ShadowDragon, I hope you are kidding. That would explain the silly things showing up though, and certain vehicles that have traditionally been helicopters deciding to suddenly become the much smaller non-hovering auto-gyro. In my own games those same aircraft have magically transformed back into helicopters again, especially with so little price and stat difference between its bigger brother.

So... Character Creation last night.

Troll Ninja.

"Ooooooooooooooo, Wing Suit!" "Yes, they come in Troll Sizes." "All I need is a cape and I'm Batman!" "Early non-detective Batman who uses firearms, maybe..."

For some reason this puts an image in my head of a huge troll in a three-piece suit with a fedora who bombs around town in a troll-sized replica 1947 Nash 600.

Well, that explains a lot. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

And we lose time discussing it... trying to "resolve the issues".

It's not just aircraft. Ask any gun nut how frustrating it is that a number of the SR guns are apparently designed by someone who got their education on firearms from movies and comic books.



-k

*Cough*Clips*Cough*

The entire combat section was designed by that guy.

Yeah, but it works... *shrug*

A Yugo works, for that value of "works".