 Storm Front is out!, Leading to SR5! |
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 Mar 22 2013, 09:31 AM
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#651
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 702 Joined: 21-August 08 From: France Member No.: 16,265  |
QUOTE (Pepsi Jedi @ Mar 22 2013, 03:10 AM)  lol I do. You've paid X amount of money to produce the product. Your (Hermit) advice is to just take "X" as a total loss. He's pointing out, You've already paid X, for the product. You can try and sell as much of the product, to make Y money back. Now... your saying 'Just take X as a loss." he's saying "Sell as much of the product as you can, to get Y "X" loss is bad. X loss + Y profit, is always going to be less than X alone in the loss department. So that means the company has a smaller net loss. (( and sometimes you might actually cover your production expense and make some money) You've recouped some of the money you've invested for the product, by selling as much of it as you can before word gets out. Usually this tactic works. Granted you might not make ALL of X back but you make more back than if you sold none at all. The kicker comes in when some out side factor, makes the market freak out.(( As apparently it did on Ares.)) To where your attempt to recoup some of your production expenditure, backfires and the negative reaction is more than you anticipate. Most times (( as most everyone, including yourself, in this thread agree)) the backlash for ONE bad product is not this big. So the gamble to make 'Some money' instead of "No money" Works. In short, if you spent cash to make crap, and you can sell that crap fast, you make back some of the cash you spent to make it, maybe even all of it. But sometimes it IS worse than you plan for. And it's totally stupid. You'd be the most idiotic boss ever to do that. You have a weapon that fails 1 time out of 6. That means that it will spread out day 1 that the weapon malfunction (customers tries their new weapon-with such a likeliness of failure, it will be known immedialtely). IRL, it's a hidden vice and you'd have to get the customers money back or replace it. Let's say it's 6th World, extraterritoriality and such and let's imagine that nobody could force Ares to give the money back. The weapon small market sales will drop down quick. Now worser, wide scale contracts: equipping armies and mercenaries, which are the heart of the market (even if Sixth World is full of weapon, Joe Average doesn't wait to buy the new gun day 1 like he would for a Playstation?). Do them that, and don't refund them, and you can dream to sell them any contract afterwards. If an Ares boss just ordered that it's.... Mmm...wait...no.... it's just not well thought by an roleplaying game author who didn't thought his plotline deep enough. |
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Mar 22 2013, 10:10 AM
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#652
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
QUOTE You have a weapon that fails 1 time out of 6. Five times out of six. It has a 1 out of 6 chance to actually work. QUOTE The thing had already been marketed - the Desert Wars thing consisted of giving them free ones, and keeping the bad footage from showing; in essence it just doesn't count. The only cost they'd have saved by scrapping it is shipping, which is going to be relatively negligible. You think advertising massively and publically on all channels, as the text claims, is given to Ares for free? Even if they advertise on their own channels alone, that advertisement is costing them because it airs in slots they could otherwise sell for money, meaning they are missing out on revenue by spamming themselves with advertisement for the Excalibur. And there's even more cost to this course. There's giving themselves bad rep, there's storage cost for the unsold weapons that are highly unlikely to ever sell properly, overtime cost for switching shenanigans with 'customer service', overtime work for PR, more PR to damage control the damage control, even more money to market the gun as actually functional while scrambling for a bugfix ... it's just throwing more and more and more money after bad money. The technical term for this is Escalation of Commitment - trying to recoup an investment lost by investing more, and more, and more. Essentially, this is why gambling is such a dangerous thing to some; they just don't know when to stop, cut their losses, and walk away. Seriously, I hope you never try and open a business of yourself. You'll ruin it in the first quarter. QUOTE And where are you getting the notion that I'm talking about them spending more money on it? I am assuming you know basic economic principles. Apologies if I was mistaken. QUOTE otherwise, it's fair to assume you're just making shit up. Assume what you will. My explanation is a courtesy, not an obligation to you. I am not your teacher. |
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Mar 22 2013, 10:44 AM
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#653
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,962 Joined: 27-February 13 Member No.: 76,875 |
So in other words, the truly questionable point is the marketing campaign. After all, they have to store the things either way, it's been established previously in this argument that they wouldn't have cause to expect the sort of rep damage that occurred, the 'customer service' was literally the bare minimum effort (and the hell are you assuming overtime for), they didn't actually do all that much PR, they weren't even trying to fix it... Literally the only relevant point there is the marketing ramp-up, which is called out as questionable in the fiction. They're not spending money on the things you think they're spending money on because they know it would be a waste. They're trying to get some money in, and are spending literally as little as possible. Seriously, the sunk cost fallacy (which, as you should have noticed, I've referenced previously) does not apply here - and even if it did, given the fact that such a mistake is made in real life, it is not "lazy writing" for the same mistake to be made in the fiction. Hell, the decision could well have been made by the project lead who was completely aware that she didn't have a job anymore anyways, and maybe wanted to do some harm (brilliant HR decision putting her in the position to do so, but there you go).
And the obligation isn't to me, but rather to the argument you're attempting to make. |
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Mar 22 2013, 11:16 AM
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#654
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
The Ares situation has been discussed back and forth enough by now. Let it be and focus on other parts of Storm Front from now on.
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Mar 22 2013, 11:30 AM
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#655
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 702 Joined: 21-August 08 From: France Member No.: 16,265 |
I do think that discussion like this should be done beforehand between the dev. line.
It's supposed to be one of the main factor for Ares stumbling, no? Independantly, you could buy a part of it: - Hack to Ares system that caused dysfunctions in orders to correct the weapon. - Reputation hit by a malfuncting weapon that caused several deathes. - Project lead taking vengeance of Ares. - Division leader that sends on sale a fail product anyway out of desperation and short-time sight. BUT: This gives the feeling it's Corporate-scale mess up (hardly realistic) which cause trouble to a megacorporation (hardly realistic) with a weapon as the faulty product. It's too much. and that's even worser with the rules of the weapon. Urm, well. Say the weapon had a less identifiable flaw (but life threating), that R&D was essentially focused on the weapon, that other megacorps used the vacuum in other research domains to take Ares market parts, that massive news campaigns highlighted how Ares did know (wether it's thruth or shadowrunning false blackmailing) the flaws of the weapon and still sold it to the soldiers (perceived asheroes of the nation) and caused their death, that several nations in turn deceided to boycott Ares... That might have hurt them. The way I see the plotline written there, it doesn't seem well thougth enough (so "lazy writting" I guess) |
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Mar 22 2013, 11:31 AM
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#656
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 702 Joined: 21-August 08 From: France Member No.: 16,265 |
QUOTE (Grinder @ Mar 22 2013, 12:16 PM) The Ares situation has been discussed back and forth enough by now. Let it be and focus on other parts of Storm Front from now on. Sorry, seen it after I posted. |
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Mar 22 2013, 11:52 AM
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#657
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
No worries. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Mar 22 2013, 01:17 PM
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#658
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,930 Joined: 9-April 05 From: Scandinavian Union Member No.: 7,310 |
So... Did we dodge the bullets on pseudoapocalyptic events this go around?
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Mar 22 2013, 01:22 PM
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#659
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,113 Joined: 24-January 13 From: Here to Eternity Member No.: 70,521 |
QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Mar 22 2013, 01:17 PM) So... Did we dodge the bullets on pseudoapocalyptic events this go around? Nope - I heard the last page has a subtle reference to SURGE-III (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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Mar 22 2013, 01:24 PM
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#660
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,930 Joined: 9-April 05 From: Scandinavian Union Member No.: 7,310 |
So it's X-men now?
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Mar 22 2013, 01:27 PM
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#661
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,113 Joined: 24-January 13 From: Here to Eternity Member No.: 70,521 |
QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Mar 22 2013, 01:24 PM) So it's X-men now? in 2075, 43% of the population has lazorz for eyes ! |
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Mar 22 2013, 01:36 PM
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#662
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,647 Joined: 22-April 12 From: somewhere far beyond sanity Member No.: 51,886 |
And I hope, 100% of the shark population have those on their heads!
But on a more serious note: No, it's not that apocalyptic. If you're not a dragon or someone living in GeMiTo, that is. |
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Mar 22 2013, 01:41 PM
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#663
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,113 Joined: 24-January 13 From: Here to Eternity Member No.: 70,521 |
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Mar 22 2013, 01:36 PM) And I hope, 100% of the shark population have those on their heads! 43% of the population are attached to sharks AND have Lazorz for eyes ? Seriously .. are you on the creative writing team for SR5 ? or just high (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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Mar 22 2013, 01:42 PM
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#664
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,647 Joined: 22-April 12 From: somewhere far beyond sanity Member No.: 51,886 |
Hm! I wish. (Both.) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Mar 22 2013, 01:52 PM
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#665
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Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,801 Joined: 2-September 09 From: Moscow, Russia Member No.: 17,589 |
QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Mar 22 2013, 06:22 AM) CRAP! Would you be so kind as to point out where? I went through that section three times, but if something slipped through, it's squarely on me. Page 145. Tadashi/Tadeshi.Also, if you were the only one to proofread it, it isn't your fault. |
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Mar 22 2013, 03:04 PM
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#666
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,575 Joined: 5-February 10 Member No.: 18,115 |
QUOTE (Mach_Ten @ Mar 22 2013, 06:27 AM) in 2075, 43% of the population has lazorz for eyes ! Ya know, when I stop to think about this, is it honestly that far fetched? What percentage of people have cybereyes, I wonder? And what percentage of cybereyes employ some form of laser, even just for reading or writing data? ~Umi |
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Mar 22 2013, 03:21 PM
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#667
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,598 Joined: 24-May 03 Member No.: 4,629 |
QUOTE (Fatum @ Mar 22 2013, 07:52 AM) Page 145. Tadashi/Tadeshi. Also, if you were the only one to proofread it, it isn't your fault. Damn! Alright, I don't think we can toss corrections in at this stage, but I'll have to watch that closer in the future. Thank you. |
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Mar 22 2013, 06:38 PM
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#668
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Do the writers show each other drafts too, or are you just proofing each others' finished contributions?
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Mar 22 2013, 07:13 PM
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#669
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,139 Joined: 31-March 10 From: UCAS Member No.: 18,391 |
QUOTE (Umidori @ Mar 22 2013, 11:04 AM) Ya know, when I stop to think about this, is it honestly that far fetched? What percentage of people have cybereyes, I wonder? And what percentage of cybereyes employ some form of laser, even just for reading or writing data? ~Umi One of the books does say that Cyber eyes are the most common cyber there is. That it's not odd what so ever for people with fully functioning eyes to take a lunch break and go get cyber eyes installed. I know I'd have them, if it were an option. |
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Mar 22 2013, 07:30 PM
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#670
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Addendum: the following is only my own experience/opinion.
QUOTE (hermit @ Mar 22 2013, 01:38 PM) Do the writers show each other drafts too, or are you just proofing each others' finished contributions? Mostly it depends on the writer(s) and the timeline. There are some of us that have a circle of other freelancers in on, like, every step of the creative process, and sometimes we'll send three or four files back and forth with comments and stuff prior to tossing a copy to Jason or up for overall group perusal. Other times (and on other projects), all depending on what kind of schedule folks have and how available we are, it might just go to the "pretty much finished contribution" phase. Just depends on how busy folks are, and how long we've got to work on a given thing, y'know? |
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Mar 22 2013, 08:22 PM
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#671
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Grumpy Old Ork Decker Group: Admin Posts: 3,794 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orwell, Ohio Member No.: 50 |
As a note, for the PsuedoApocolypse for this go around... RUmor has it the Clans are invading.
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Mar 22 2013, 08:49 PM
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#672
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
Great, just what we need... Celts.
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Mar 22 2013, 08:54 PM
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#673
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,139 Joined: 31-March 10 From: UCAS Member No.: 18,391 |
QUOTE (CanRay @ Mar 22 2013, 04:49 PM) Great, just what we need... Celts. You can never have too many of us! |
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Mar 22 2013, 09:13 PM
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#674
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,930 Joined: 9-April 05 From: Scandinavian Union Member No.: 7,310 |
Didn't we whoop their asses back in the days?
Hard to remember everyone we vikinged (it's a verb deal with it) |
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Mar 22 2013, 09:15 PM
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#675
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,575 Joined: 5-February 10 Member No.: 18,115 |
No, that was the Romans - the guys who did everything the Vikings ever did, but bigger, better, and a millenia or two sooner. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
Except for cross the Atlantic and leave a failed colony to die on a forsaken foreign shore, of course. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ~Umi |
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