What does the 46/10 mean in the Skill Priority?

I think the second number is supposed to be the number of ranks you get for skill groups.

I don't think so,
the including of Karma as Freebees is totally fucked up, because I would think that a Adept cannont buy Power Points for 2 Karma ingame, but in character creation he can. Also the Qualities are really cheap. If you can buy these for the same Karma ingame I woud buy a lot of qualities ingame. Exeptional Attr for 14Karma instead of 40; Focused Concentration 2 for 8 Karma etc. that is really cheap.

If the ingame Karma Cost and the Karma Cost at chargen is different why even call it Karma at all? The reason for Karmagen is that you pay the same at Chargen and ingame. I really don't see that happening here...

Bull, all the respect I could possibly have. But this isn't really a good metric to use here, and I hope its not too far along to tweak things a bit.

Basically, Trolls large "karma advantage" is mitigated by the fact that much of their stats have either diminished value (Str on a non-melee for example), or diminishing returns (Bod over 8ish, post 'ware etc).

Like, its just not that useful to have a starting Bod of 9 or 10. An Ork can start with 8 just as easily as a Troll, which allows an 8/6 Armor Jacket, 6/2 FFBA, a full set of 2/6 SercureTech, and a 2/1 Ballistic Mask for an encumbrance total of 15/14 and effective rating of 18/15. Taking the Troll up to a Bod of 10, and his natural armor point, means hes rolling maybe 29 dice instead of 26 dice vs gunfire.... pretty small advantage in a relative sense. Sure, after 100s of Karma it might be a nice option to have available, but for the majority of game-play time spent at the table, its a relative non-issue... the Ork probably got more mileage out of his 20 extra BP than the Troll's one more average hit on dmg resistance tests.

I am not saying the above example is practical or whatever.... only that having gained an "extra" 95 karma worth of points on Bod there really didn't change much. If a character sank that into Bod during gameplay, the rest of the team would undoubtedly get better returns elsewhere for a chunk that large. Its not really a valid way of measuring gain to simply extrapolate free karma. If anything, the number of Trolls Ive seen has diminished relative to 3rd, with Orks showing up much, much more frequently.

That said, 100% lifestyle is a seemingly large annoyance. Its reasonable to increase a cost here (Trolls will undoubtedly need more space to live, stronger furnishings, more food, higher renters insurance, etc) but double seems punative. I would suggest maybe 50% more lifestyle, as that fits more logically with what "should be" relative to reality (a teen's car insurance might double, but the cost of his car won't... same idea with trolls, not everything will increase by double, etc). If there needs to be more penalty, somewhere else might make more sense. As it is, this only really penalizes characterful trolls who may try to play against type by living the High Life... and really lifestyle is more of a character flavor thing than a crunchy bit people will min/max around. I would hate to lose a lot of character concepts to impracticality over such a large margin of difference between player races.

Finally, I realize this feedback is made about a new system which has not been revealed fully, from the standpoint of an old system. Thus, it may be completely invalid. But I am wary of metrics like "free karma" being used because they tend towards abstract measures and away from practical gameplay. At least in my humble opinion, anyhow. Thanks for taking the time, cheers.

After reading the three previews and the quickstart rules I am asking myself if this is really Shadowrun 5 or some kind of Shadowrun 3 revised. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead.gif)

yes

I suppose you haven't considered that the Karma costs in SR5 could be a great deal different from where they are now, such that those numbers are not, in relative terms, so low? Or that Power Points would be capped by Magic (and thus, presumably, the standard Adept wouldn't need to buy them in the first place)?

I suppose you haven't considered that the Karma costs in SR5 could be a great deal different from where they are now, such that those numbers are not, in relative terms, so low? Or that Power Points would be capped by Magic (and thus, presumably, the standard Adept wouldn't need to buy them in the first place)?

I have never been all that fond of the priority system. The BP system is pretty much the only way I've been able to realize my characters. The SR5 priority system? I love. I *like* the way it works. On the other hand, I'm kinda curious what we're missing for mystic adepts. The 2 karma cost per adept power point (max magic) doesn't seem to be all that bad. The "cost" of being a mystic adept doesn't seem all that costly when compared to the magician and the adept.

One of the reasons I never played a mystic adept in SR4 was the time (and karma) it took to get "on par" with the rest of the group. My group's games don't ever really last that long. Don't get me wrong, I like the change. I'm just worried it went too much on the opposite direction.

Concerning the increased cost for playing trolls: At least in my groups, trolls have already been the least common type of metahuman. The increased cost will make troll characters non-existent. Actually most of the trolls were being played for fluff and not for bonus attributes. We had a few troll mages and shamans. The non-point disadvantages, like being easily recognizable, being just way too big or too heavy for many accomodations and problems with being stealthy have been a large enough disincentive, at least in my eyes.

Remember - the 'ware price increase thing is a typo.

Meaning if the Errata-Priority has not changed, it will be correct in the german version but not in the american one.

I'm not arguing at all. I'm just discussing. I'm sorry if you thought I was arguing with you.

I think you meant to say "YYYEESSSS!!!"

I was hoping for a step back. I always thought they took SR4 too far away from the original intent.

What is the difference between spells known and formula known?

SYL

Forgive me if I am wrong, I am not involved with professional editing and proofreading; CGL stated that the core rulebook had already gone to the printers as week or two ago. Doesn't the hardcopy book use the same text files as the PDF? If so, I have to say I'm worried about this edition already due to the incredible number of errors in these three previews.

following the tradition of the last books, there will be errors in this book, they will be fixed in 1-2years when the second print run is published, which will introduce new errors. And when these are fixed in the 3rd print run, they forget to include the errata from the 2nd run and the original errors will reappear.

Good thing the German publisher is not that neglectful of errata and proofreading.

My thoughts exactly. But don't worry, errata is already in the pipeline to be released around Christmas. Oh wait, that was the errata for Augmentation ca. 2009...

But they did announce that "everything has a price", didn't they? Well, looks the price for playing 5th Ed is learning German (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

On the other side, there is something positive in SR5: the "life for a magig user / technomancer" are very good (and should have been included in SR1234.

SYL

We did, indeed, reach back through all of Shadowrun history when we worked on it, yeah. Good catch.

So would you claim that the "Schnellstartregeln - Fünfte Edition" is error free?

Even if they were, *quick* start rules and the foundational rulebook of an edition do not compare. But the recent and not-so-recent history has plenty of good comparisons...

Thanks! I knew it was something like that, but couldn't remember off the top of my head.

Really liking art in this preview. Fiction decent. I'm good with priority system, old gamers with limited time welcome a system that speed up char creation day. Was totally against moving to another edition anytime soon, maybe its the fanboy or just the GM in me but now I'm really wanting to see the whole thing and put it into practice.

and people call me mean ^^