Well... If codes have been upped by 3 or so, then the holdout does what, 6p? Even With the Proposed 7 Hit Limit of the Ares Pred (and realistically we know that that Limit will be less for the Hold-out than the Predator, right). That would only be 13p, which we know won't kill a Troll, even if it generates no actual Hits on its Resistance Test (which is highly unlikely, but not unheard of).

Had a game a ways back where the Sneaky Female Face managed to smuggle in a Holdout Pistol past scanners, pat downs and everything (I really do not want to know where she hid it, but wherever it was hidden, it made it past all of the searches). When push came to shove, that was the only weapon available (all the others were found), and in a surprise moment, when she managed to break free of restraints, pulled it and shot the troll interrogator in the face, killing him. Why? Because she was inordinately lucky on her initial roll (which was not high DP to start with... 14DP IIRC). Something that the new Limits rule will totally negate unless the Character actually has Edge available to allow it.

Therefore, Limits will PUNISH, not Reward, the character for making an exceptionally amazing roll, because they will not be able to make use of the hits they generated.

I interpreted your original comment as end damage not being changed between SR4.5 and SR5 despite the limits since while the limits on lowered extra damage the weapon damage was increased to compensate for this fact. Just because results are identical doesn't mean the method is preferable or desirable.

The problem you're noting is with the core game mechanic -- it provides you too much opportunity to get too many successes. Now, instead of rebalancing that and tweaking what a success means, they've decided to keep it balanced identically and drop in an artificial cap on how many successes can be used. I guess that's just plain easier for the design team than actually fixing the system, but it's going to create a lot of bizarre quirks in the simulation.

Regarding weapons and damage, weapons were increased by a bit, and then armor was practically doubled. Speaking of which, is damage resistance going to be affected by Limits? It'd be funny to watch people only get to soak 4 or 5 damage.

Streetline special that the sample character shown has is indeed 6P but it only has accuracy of 4 witch can be raised to 6 with smartlink.

So, Interestingly, The top of the Line Ares Product has a limit only 1 better than the crappiest weapon you can find on the street. Epic Failure indeed. So much for differentiating by quality. *Shakes Head*

I normally don't say this, but...

If you're putting a smartlink on your Streetline Special, then you are, in fact, doing it wrong. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Well, the top of the line Ares Product has a built-in smartgun link, which you're supposed to use.

I mean, you can ignore the cool sight on top of your sniper rifle and hip-fire the thing, but if you do, you're not really allowed to complain about it being not that accurate, you know?

For someone with 12 dice in pistols, there won't be much difference between the two guns (You'll hit the limit with the Streetline Special fairly often, but beating it's a tad more rare), while for someone who tosses 20 dice, there's clearly a better choice to make. Right tool for the right person. If you toss, say, 6 dice in firearms, like being an Agility 3 Face with Pistols 3? You have no idea what the team gunbunny's going on about. He keeps harping "Ares quality guns", but they all shoot the same for you.

No it has 3 better limit, 7 versus 4 and then both of them can add smartlink on top of that(well the predator comes with one standard, but you know what i mean)

My point is that, per the design intent, there should be a bigger difference between the Top end to Bottom end weapons (or other gear). If the design principle was to make gear important, and actually mean something, then it has failed in its execution, since it is only the differnece of 1 measly hit between top and bottom ends. It is obvious that the result failed in its execution. If you did not want there to be significant differnence in quality (as evidenced by the information provided), why even go the route you went in design at that point?

Ummm... No it does not... Ares Predator is 5 (7)... The 7 is for the Smartlink.
Streetline Special is 4 (6) with a Smartlink.
At least by what has been given us so far.

Where did you get stats for Predator?(the ones im listing are from the sample character in this preview)
Becouse thats really wierd accuracy for it, Colt America(non stop of the line light pistol) has accuracy 7 and Ruger Super Warhawk(Big ass revolver) has accuracy 5.
Predator having same accuracy as Warhawk makes zero sense.

Maybe certain NPCs will have access to special gear to make them more formidable.

Uh.... this is a game where the players are criminals adept at stealing, killing, breaking and entering, and other things.

I wouldn't be surprised that half of the things I witnessed in Saints Row the Third were inspired by Pink Mohawk Shadowrun.

Got it from the Preview... And the comments from the Developers regarding the Smartlink.
*shrug* See my concern?

There might be other factors like base damage and AP that make a difference between weapons.

And you might be comparing a "Best in Class" in one class to a "Worst in Class" of another class of weapon.

And I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that a smartlink doesn't make you a better shooter any more. I mean, especially an untrained person or a casual shooter should get better results (hit more often) when firing a smart-assisted gun. You know, aim so that the tiny red cross in your field of vision is inside the rectangle...
But that's no longer the case. Now a smartgun let's you hit better provided you are good with a gun in the first place...

Somehow that doesn't fly with me.

-CJ

Yes, the smartlink providing no bonus to hit is pretty bad. I guess they have to jam in some limit modifiers somewhere, at the cost of classic sensibility.

Until you've read everything a smartlink does, please don't make up your mind that they're terrible. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Remember, guys, gals, and ghouls, that the book still isn't out. Everyone's developing strong opinions based on incomplete data.

If people didn't form and post strong opinions based on incomplete data, the internet would be a very empty place. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

GM:"You see a BBEG wielding a +4Limit Assault Shotgun! I'd be very scared if i were you!"
Sam:"DIBS!"
Rigger:"Di- damn it!"

That's kinda what makes the Internet a terrible, vile world in the first place... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleepy.gif)

I'm sure there are entities that the players encounter that have better things than the players can get.

What makes you think, they'd drop those weapons?! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

one simple thing:
if the enemy can have it and i can't take it from the enemy, then i ain't playing.
if the GM tries to play one uppmanship with me, he'd better hand over the goods when i manage to take them.

Then try and stop arguing with video game logic, please.