No.
If the enemy has something and i can't pick it up from his dead body, then worlds will burn.

In PnP RPG even more so than in CRPG

I'm confused. You really took that seriously?

No Sarcasm-Tag, no Smileys.
Kinda hard to tell via Text.

Well, I took your comment on Shemhazai's tongue in cheek statement that NPCs might get other gear than PCs (at least that's how I interpreted it) as being a joke. Which is why I made one in the same vein. Misunderstandings happen, I guess.

i did not even figure his statement to have been tongue in cheek <.<

Because you still can't kill people with a hold out, and possibly other weapons as well.

For example, if you walk up to somebody, stick a gun to the back of their head, and pull the trigger, they should die. However, as demonstrated, they still get a reaction test to try and squirm out of the way, so if they get 5 successes on a Dodge versus your Limit 4 gun, you can't hit them. Worse, even if they don't dodge, the holdout can only do a max of 10P. Assuming even *one* success on a resistance roll, and Joe Average Human will still be conscious and fighting.

Additionally, have you ever seen players cheer when they make a spectacular roll? There's much high-fiving, back-slapping, shouts of joy all around. Now, imagine what happens when you tell them they don't get to use that roll-- it was wasted. How do you think most players would feel?

In my experience, taking successes away from players is a bad move. It's not fun, garners complaints, and occasionally damn near causes table flips.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Do you expect us to buy the book based on incomplete data?

What has been done so far is the data that has been released is not favorable to some of us. That is the data that the publisher has decided to make public and making data public in the case of a TTRPG is marketing.

Right. This initial marketing thrust is losing some of the key "most likely to buy" demographic, and I don't see that as unwarranted, since it's largely based on a disagreement of design elements. Meanwhile, I'm quite excited over the prerelease D&D stuff and am moving toward a tentative buy, contrary to my opinions of the previous edition. I'm just a consumer here, so I don't know what anyone really expects.

Yeah, the open playtest for D&D Next has generated a lot of buzz. They report 120,000 active playtesters, which means 120,000 books sold when the game comes out. The closed, draconian NDA model has some serious disadvantages to it, especially in the age of the internet, where rumors spread quickly and can tank a product before it sees the light of day.

Yes, I get that. I do. Trust me. But when folks are talking about how terrible it is that smartlinks don't do X any more, when they haven't read the chapter that has the rules for smartlinks, I'm gonna try and just remind people that they haven't read the rules for smartlinks, y'know?

I understand how this might be taken as me 100% defending every page of this product as game publication perfection, but it'd be great if you didn't take it that way, because that's frankly not what I'm saying. I addressed a single, very specific concern, by reminding folks that their concern may be hasty, in an attempt to be maybe a little "wait and see" comforting. You clearly took the comment another way, but in this instance I'd just ask you to not do so.

Aren't most book, movie, and video game previews also like this? You either buy based on incomplete data or you wait for reviews from those that did.

We're not blaming you, Critias. I appreciate what you're doing.

But the failure here is that the marketing folk aren't giving us enough information to decide if we want to buy the book... and the incomplete information they're showing us isn't generating a lot of positive feedback. Unless we see something with some serious Wow factor, the marketing campaign might just backfire, as people who would otherwise have bought the book get turned off by the internet rumors.

Normally, for movie previews, they show you the best and most impressive stuff. They've given up on spoilers for the most part, and they rely on wowing you.

SR5, so far, has shown us the worst parts (limits) and hasn't wowed anyone to my knowledge.

If you get the opportunity to loot the body of a boss villain, and you know what you're looking for, sure, take it.

Of note, by the way: I don't think the Ares Predator is even supposed to be top of the line in the first place - I seem to recall, for example, seeing the Government 2066 somewhere, with a higher limit than the Predator without its Smartlink.

Not correct. Not all 5e playtesters will be purchasing the book -- me for starters.

You Aztechnology stooge. All Ares products are top of the line. Some are just more top of the line than others.

Well, if the Previews ARE the HIGHLIGHTS, well, nuff said, I think...
If they are not, then the failure is on the Marketing Department's shoulders...

And me... DnD5 failed as spectacularly as DnD4 did in my opinion. Will be sticking with my 3.5 Edition. *shrug*

Also, things being mostly like SR4 isn't going to wow anyone. And if limits ard the solution to a primary issue with 4, I don't have a lot of faith in the rest of the system. I don't get a sense that the game is being developed in a good direction. If there's something that's truly amazing and preconception-shattering coming up I'm going to be helluva surprised. This of course makes me sad because Shadowrun is one of my favorite games.

As long as they aren't sporting 'Assless Chaps of Exposure +1' I'm ok with that.

I'm glad to hear that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And I don't think that smartlinks are terrible by the way. It's just that they are (from what we've seen so far at least) working mechanically differently from what I expect from a smartlink (make you hit more often instead of make your hits possibly better).
Actually, that's just part of my concerns with the statement that in SR5 gear won't give so many dicepool modifiers any more (again from what I've heard and seen so far). Instead we get gear that modifies limits. And mechanically that means that gear no longer has any influence on your actual success chance on success and threshold tests.
I'm pretty sure, I'm not the only one who is bothered by that. Mind you, I'm still hoping that some crucial information about how gear works is still missing and I will definitely have a look at the whole book when it's finally released.

That's why I really appreciate your efforts here to discuss with us about the pieces of information that have been released. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

-CJ

This is why the best NPC weapons are the ones it would be impractical for the Runners to make off with.

A big bad shooting at you with a high-tech prototype shotgun sporting a unique enchantment? Yeah, that's getting looted.

Same big bad instead shooting at you with a heavy weapon built into a military gunship? Unless the runners feel pretty darn confident in their ability to a) hack/take control of the gunship, b) have the skills to fly it, c) escape with it, d) clean it of tags and trackers, e) get it to a secure place, f) successfully keep it hidden, g) refuel it, h) rearm it, i) repair it, j) reuse or k) retail it, and l) live to tell the tale? They're gonna willingly leave it behind.

~Umi

Or clever enough to figure a way to bypass all of that. Like, for example, unscrewing the thing from the gunship.

The best NPC weapons are the ones that aren't worth looting, only slightly better than what the PC's are already using. Then, they won't bother.