IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V  < 1 2  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Draco18s
post Jun 27 2013, 03:15 AM
Post #26


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,289
Joined: 2-October 08
Member No.: 16,392



Technically Astral Hazing isn't aspected, at least not in a usable way. It's sort of like "aspected (anti-this-character)."*

*I use "anti" because a magician who is astrally hazed should never get the benefits from being inside his own BC.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Rubic
post Jun 27 2013, 03:44 AM
Post #27


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 608
Joined: 7-June 11
From: Virginia Beach, VA
Member No.: 31,052



QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jun 26 2013, 11:15 PM) *
Technically Astral Hazing isn't aspected, at least not in a usable way. It's sort of like "aspected (anti-this-character)."*

*I use "anti" because a magician who is astrally hazed should never get the benefits from being inside his own BC.


QUOTE (Runner s companion)
Astral Hazing
Bonus: 10 BP (for non-Awakened characters),
15 BP (for Awakened characters)
A character with this quality has expressed metagenes that
somehow catalyse and feed on the character’s darker emotions and
negative feelings, disturbing the character’s aura and any ambient
mana in her vicinity. For reasons not yet understood, the character
becomes an aspected domain in her own right
and taints astral
space around her wherever she goes; a generator of tainted astral
background count (similar to a cyberzombie).

I agree, esp. as it's a flaw, that it should never/hardly ever benefit the character who uses it. That's why I commented that a Toxic Shaman with Astral Hazing would likely brighten up the area around him/herself.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
toturi
post Jun 27 2013, 04:22 AM
Post #28


Canon Companion
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 8,021
Joined: 2-March 03
From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG
Member No.: 4,187



QUOTE (Rubic @ Jun 27 2013, 11:44 AM) *
I agree, esp. as it's a flaw, that it should never/hardly ever benefit the character who uses it. That's why I commented that a Toxic Shaman with Astral Hazing would likely brighten up the area around him/herself.

As it stands, the Astral Hazing may be caused by his metagenes feeding on the character's darker emotions and negative feelings, but it does not state explicitly how or towards what kind of magic is it Aspected. Therefore a Toxic Shaman with Astral Hazing should, by the RAW, screw over himself like any other magician with Astral Hazing.

For myself, the Astral Hazing is indeed Aspected in an unusable way. It is aspected (anti-every character).

QUOTE
To correct you, it wasn't MY analogy. Street Magic, p 121, read it for yourself. If removing/cleaning up the toxic waste doesn't immediately remove its background count, then why should removing a person do the job? Rating 4 isn't even small-time for background count; this isn't as quick as getting rid of a fart through air dispersal.

Neraph and I have some disagreements on how some parts of the RAW should be read, but usually because I was splitting hairs. However on this, I have to agree with him. The key is not the Street Magic p121, but the rules for Astral Hazing itself. The Background Count is caused by Astral Hazing Quality. The Quality spells out explicitly what happens. While Astral Hazing causes Background Count, it tacks on certain specific rules to that Background Count. If the situation was different, then SM p121 may apply, but Astral Hazing has its own set of RAW and the RAW applicable to certain situations are different from the RAW in others.

If indeed this is how you want to rule this, I'd say then it should be ruled consistently. Any source of Background Count would leave a permanent BC, at least until Cleansed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Draco18s
post Jun 27 2013, 11:56 AM
Post #29


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,289
Joined: 2-October 08
Member No.: 16,392



QUOTE (toturi @ Jun 26 2013, 11:22 PM) *
For myself, the Astral Hazing is indeed Aspected in an unusable way. It is aspected (anti-every character).


Well, unless you know a magical tradition known as "Anti-Steve" then I think that part is covered quite well though incidentals. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BishopMcQ
post Jun 27 2013, 01:05 PM
Post #30


The back-up plan
**********

Group: Retired Admins
Posts: 8,423
Joined: 15-January 03
From: San Diego
Member No.: 3,910



I'm playing a character with Astral Hazing, and it spills out as a miasma all around me that the mages and adepts in the group hate. When they ward an area, I have to sit in a small area that they have chalked out to avoid accidentally overlapping them. I have to be DYING before they even consider healing me, while they top off the street sam's 1-2 boxes of damage. Once the run starts, I have to make sure to stay away from them. Getting too close shuts down their foci and causes them to get all sorts of cranky.

In my evil GM mind, I've thought about a toxic or twisted group that kidnaps several changelings with Astral Hazing. Lock them up with BTLs and IV fluids/TPN, then use geomancy to convert the background count to something favorable. Because of the wording in Astral Hazing, the changelings would have to never move or the geomancy would need to start all over again. (Which is why we lock them up...)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neraph
post Jun 27 2013, 01:08 PM
Post #31


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,542
Joined: 30-September 08
From: D/FW Megaplex
Member No.: 16,387



QUOTE (Rubic @ Jun 26 2013, 08:55 PM) *
To correct you, it wasn't MY analogy. Street Magic, p 121, read it for yourself. If removing/cleaning up the toxic waste doesn't immediately remove its background count, then why should removing a person do the job? Rating 4 isn't even small-time for background count; this isn't as quick as getting rid of a fart through air dispersal.

For my own analogy, it's a car leaking oil. That oil sits on the road, stains the road, maybe even pools up a bit. It kills things on the small scale, produces an odor for a while, and generally makes the area a bit less pleasant for its presence. Rain can disperse it a bit, as can soapy water or a power washer's spray. It likely will result in a trail of caked-on grime that will lead along the path of that car as it drove around. Until somebody follows along and completely washes it, there will be those grimy oil stains on the ground, and it will always puddle up more where that car stops. Only this car likely will never stop leaking oil until it's completely drained of fluids and junked, and it will leak more noticeably than a conventional car would at its worst operable leakiness.

Go look on the road some time. You'll see the grimy stains of leaked oil, transmission fluid, etc., mostly pooled near traffic lights and other places that cars sit for more than a few moments. You can disagree with me, and you can disagree with RAW, but that doesn't change RAW. Granted, we all find ourselves at odds with the rules from time to time. Don't like it? Don't use it. Easy, and all you have to say is "I prefer it this other way." A nod to RAW, house rules instated, situation good to go. Also, I'm not saying the RAW is necessarily the RIGHT way to handle the situation/quality; rather, I'm saying RAW is rather punishing for this particular flaw. I think you can agree with me on that front at least.

I do also like the way you think for the aspecting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Toxic just seems the go-to aspect for dark-emotions-metabolized-into-background-count

Your analogies are in error. They are both assuming that the area of influence from Astral Hazing leaves a permanent streak - something that is not written in the rules for Astral Hazing at all. Astral Hazing deals with something that the normal rules for BC do not account for, which is a mobile BC generator. For example, that toxic waste dump creates a BC because it's been sitting there for decades. Joe the Astral Plague, however, has an aura of BC that follows him like a cloud of flies. The BC of Astral Hazing specifically states that it says within X meters (X=Essence) of Joe the Astral Plague at all times - if it left streaks wherever he went, that would be violating the X meters rule that's specific to him. The standard BC rules are not being violated because the BC of Joe the Astral Plague is not dissipating at all - in fact, it would take months after his death for the pall to leave his corpse.

But that doesn't mean that Joe the Astral Plague is also Joe the Astral Signature Artist.

Also, since Astral Hazing creates an aspected BC and Geomancy allows you to change the aspect for BC, you could totally use Geomancy to change the aspect of your (or someone else's [plot hook]) BC, through the proper use of brands/tattoos/scarification, dependent on tradition.

EDIT:
QUOTE (BishopMcQ @ Jun 27 2013, 07:05 AM) *
Because of the wording in Astral Hazing, the changelings would have to never move or the geomancy would need to start all over again. (Which is why we lock them up...)

Citation?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Draco18s
post Jun 27 2013, 01:18 PM
Post #32


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,289
Joined: 2-October 08
Member No.: 16,392



QUOTE (Neraph @ Jun 27 2013, 08:08 AM) *
Citation?


Geomancy rules. It affects an area and if that area ever changes, you have to re-geomancy it.

It also takes months to geomancy an area. Just one month of the guy standing around with his thumb up his ass results in his haze taking over a 1440 meter diameter area (if I remember the rules correctly: 1 meter per hour?).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BishopMcQ
post Jun 27 2013, 01:26 PM
Post #33


The back-up plan
**********

Group: Retired Admins
Posts: 8,423
Joined: 15-January 03
From: San Diego
Member No.: 3,910



Astral Hazing is a R4 Background count that centers on the person. If they remain in place, it begins to grow slowly.

Geomancy takes four months of rituals, during which time, the area needs to be adjusted to the tradition to make it permanent. If the background count is gone from the area, it can't be aspected with Geomancy. The base requirement for Geomancy is no longer present. This would apply to a permanent Cleansing or the Astral Hazing leaving.

Neraph--Is your argument that it cannot happen at all, or that the changeling could come and go without affecting the geomancy?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Draco18s
post Jun 27 2013, 01:33 PM
Post #34


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,289
Joined: 2-October 08
Member No.: 16,392



QUOTE (BishopMcQ @ Jun 27 2013, 08:26 AM) *
Neraph--Is your argument that it cannot happen at all, or that the changeling could come and go without affecting the geomancy?


I think he's trying to argue that you geomancy the changeling's body so that the haze is aspected AND travels with him. Which would allow the hazed person to be a mage and get the benefits of domain, which should never happen because negative quality.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neraph
post Jun 27 2013, 04:04 PM
Post #35


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,542
Joined: 30-September 08
From: D/FW Megaplex
Member No.: 16,387



QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jun 27 2013, 08:33 AM) *
I think he's trying to argue that you geomancy the changeling's body so that the haze is aspected AND travels with him. Which would allow the hazed person to be a mage and get the benefits of domain, which should never happen because negative quality.

Purty much. And it does happen because the way the rules are worded. The area you're affecting is the X-meter sphere around the changeling, and the terrain you'd have to alter would be the changeling's body.

I've shown before that, unless you use Shenanigans (which are technically still legal), you end up spending at the very least 98 karma to raise your Magic and get the Initiations required to actually do this, not to mention spending at the very least four in-game months.

I don't know about you, but the amount of effort required to convert that negative quality into an amazing quality kinda deserves letting it pass. That's a considerable amount of dedication for essentially a R4 Power focus Plus Model.

My books are away from me at the moment (can't get freakin' Adobe Reader to download at Fort Lost-In-The-Woods, Misery), but if you want I can call my peoples to get the citations that allow Geomancy to affect Astral Hazing. There's only three sentences required that let it.

But yeah, the changeling doesn't need to remain stationary because the area that the Hazing is in is always there, relative to the location (body) of the changeling.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Draco18s
post Jun 27 2013, 05:16 PM
Post #36


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,289
Joined: 2-October 08
Member No.: 16,392



QUOTE (Neraph @ Jun 27 2013, 11:04 AM) *
I've shown before that, unless you use Shenanigans (which are technically still legal), you end up spending at the very least 98 karma to raise your Magic and get the Initiations required to actually do this, not to mention spending at the very least four in-game months.


Or...hire somebody else to do it?

Remember, if you can do it to yourself, then your friend can do it to you, then some cabal mage you just met can do it to you.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V  < 1 2
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 16th May 2025 - 10:20 AM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.