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Tzeentch
post Jul 6 2013, 05:55 AM
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The size of the tribal name reflects their estimated pre-Contact populations.

Current US: http://static.squarespace.com/static/5075f...tions_39x26.pdf

Current Canada: https://static.squarespace.com/static/5075f...ooseOptions.pdf
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Kesendeja
post Jul 6 2013, 12:23 PM
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Thanks, I've been looking for something like this. All I've found is one for language groups.
http://daphne.palomar.edu/ais100/culture-areas3.gif

Also of interest if you can find a copy "Encyclopedia of Native American Tribes" by Carl Waldman.
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Umidori
post Jul 6 2013, 12:36 PM
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Something like 95% of the native populations of the Americas died to diseases introduced by Europeans. The fact that we could still construct even mere language maps hundreds of years after the fact is somewhat astounding, if you stop and think about it.

~Umi
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Charon
post Jul 8 2013, 03:35 AM
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As the legend says, these are the names amerindians used to call themselves, hence the fact I recognized almost none of them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

That might be more respectful, but it's not very practical from a SR source POV. Most of those tribes are either dead or migrated and very few are known to us by those names. For example, you see the Wyandatte on the Canada map between Montreal and Ottawa but by now this tribe is in Oklahoma, 2500Km away!

A nice bit of historical trivia (Unless you are amerindian, in which ase you probably don't think it's trivial!), but not very useful in SR. Unless you just want amerindian sounding tribe names and don't care a wit for anything else.
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kzt
post Jul 8 2013, 04:24 AM
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In New Mexico the tribes are occasionally renaming their towns to the original pre-Spanish names. Which are mostly kind of hard to pronounce. For example, the San Juan Pueblo is Ohkay Owingeh and Canoncito is now To'hajiilee.
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Tzeentch
post Jul 8 2013, 04:32 AM
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It's pretty useful for the western tribes that were not nearly as displaced.
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Not of this Worl...
post Jul 9 2013, 12:51 AM
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QUOTE (Umidori @ Jul 6 2013, 04:36 AM) *
Something like 95% of the native populations of the Americas died to diseases introduced by Europeans. The fact that we could still construct even mere language maps hundreds of years after the fact is somewhat astounding, if you stop and think about it.

~Umi


Statistics are a messy thing. In the Pacific Northwest that number is particularly accurate for the period of the early 1800s. For the east coast and other regions it was a much lower death rate over a longer period of time

Diseases went the other way as well, but most of the American diseases weren't as deadly.

Edit: The locations for my Sauk & Fox ancestors is amusingly wrong. The Algonquin tribes which have a related language come from the region.
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Tzeentch
post Jul 9 2013, 01:14 AM
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QUOTE (Not of this World @ Jul 9 2013, 12:51 AM) *
Statistics are a messy thing. In the Pacific Northwest that number is particularly accurate for the period of the early 1800s. For the east coast and other regions it was a much lower death rate over a longer period of time.

-- Also remember that the 95% is literally just a ballpark guess, and includes secondary effects that were not directly related to the diseases themselves (e.g. entire depopulated tribes joining another). For even the optimistic Shadowrun numbers to work, you pretty much have to assume that there were a lot more Native Americans/First Nations around before the Sixth Age.
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Edit: The locations for my Sauk & Fox ancestors is amusingly wrong. The Algonquin tribes which have a related language come from the region.

-- It's a best guess in some cases. I can tell you right now that the locations given for some of the tribes bordering the Nez Perce would cause arguments right now if I showed this to a Coeur D' Alene or Spokane member. They still claim each others areas, partly because of treaty statements regarding "usual and accustomed" ranges (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Not of this Worl...
post Jul 9 2013, 01:39 AM
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QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 8 2013, 05:14 PM) *
-- Also remember that the 95% is literally just a ballpark guess, and includes secondary effects that were not directly related to the diseases themselves (e.g. entire depopulated tribes joining another). For even the optimistic Shadowrun numbers to work, you pretty much have to assume that there were a lot more Native Americans/First Nations around before the Sixth Age.


Or redefine who counts as a Native American and add in a lot of pinkskins. Ute numbers weren't too unrealistic, but some like Salish-Shidhe needed a lot of metahumans and pinkskins even with a liberal definition of who is "Native".

QUOTE
-- It's a best guess in some cases. I can tell you right now that the locations given for some of the tribes bordering the Nez Perce would cause arguments right now if I showed this to a Coeur D' Alene or Spokane member. They still claim each others areas, partly because of treaty statements regarding "usual and accustomed" ranges (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


They're at least in the correct geographical region (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Tzeentch
post Jul 9 2013, 01:47 AM
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QUOTE (Not of this World @ Jul 9 2013, 01:39 AM) *
Or redefine who counts as a Native American and add in a lot of pinkskins. Ute numbers weren't too unrealistic, but some like Salish-Shidhe needed a lot of metahumans and pinkskins even with a liberal definition of who is "Native".

-- Aye, and that was explicitly part of the Great Population Reset in Shadows of North America. "Pinkskin" and "anglo" are cultural pejoratives that have almost nothing to do with genetics in 2050+ (at least, unless you want to lampshade the population stuff).
QUOTE
They're at least in the correct geographical region (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

-- Nitpicker (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Umidori
post Jul 9 2013, 03:07 AM
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QUOTE (Not of this World @ Jul 8 2013, 06:51 PM) *
Statistics are a messy thing. In the Pacific Northwest that number is particularly accurate for the period of the early 1800s. For the east coast and other regions it was a much lower death rate over a longer period of time

Diseases went the other way as well, but most of the American diseases weren't as deadly.

Well, I'm including Central and South America as well in that number. Sadly I don't have a proper source to cite.

~Umi
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kzt
post Jul 9 2013, 04:33 AM
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QUOTE (Not of this World @ Jul 8 2013, 06:39 PM) *
Ute numbers weren't too unrealistic, but some like Salish-Shidhe needed a lot of metahumans and pinkskins even with a liberal definition of who is "Native".

Umm, there are about 10,000 Utes, including the ones in Colorado. (Utah's total Ute population was 2940 in 2000.) There are almost 3 million people who are NOT Utes in Utah. There are more people in Utah who have Swiss ancestry than Native American. There are actually a lot more Navajo then Utes in Utah. (14,634 Navajo in Utah in 2000.)
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Not of this Worl...
post Jul 9 2013, 04:39 AM
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QUOTE (kzt @ Jul 8 2013, 08:33 PM) *
Umm, there are about 10,000 Utes, including the ones in Colorado. There are almost 3 million people who are NOT Utes in Utah.


Yes, put per NAN1 pretty much all of the Las Vegas and SLC/Mormon populations were allowed to stay in their "Urban Reservations". Also, the Ute and Sioux Nations included a lot of eastern tribes from former reservations in Oklahoma. So yeah, the population numbers were realistic.
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kzt
post Jul 9 2013, 04:53 AM
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QUOTE (Not of this World @ Jul 8 2013, 09:39 PM) *
Yes, put per NAN1 pretty much all of the Las Vegas and SLC/Mormon populations were allowed to stay in their "Urban Reservations". Also, the Ute and Sioux Nations included a lot of eastern tribes from former reservations in Oklahoma. So yeah, the population numbers were realistic.

Yeah. like the LDS are going to surrender BYU or any of the valley without a fight. Jesus had Peter, Brigham Young had Porter Rockwell.
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Nath
post Jul 9 2013, 11:00 AM
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It's the opposite actually. The Mormon community supported the Sovereign Amerindian Movement, and were rewarded with their own independent (if you can call an enclave a quarter of the Ute Nation). Guess loyalty to the federal government that put into native Americans into concentration camps did not cope well with some of their beliefs.
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