Edit: you're wrong, see posts I've linked before.

The example is confusing because in Wombat's third action phase he only takes on Simple Action (Take Aim).

Wombat is plugging away at some obnoxious gangers who insulted his street name. He starts with 1 free point and has a Strength of 3, giving him 2 points of compensation. He’s using
a Colt Manhunter with 1 point of recoil compensation, which brings his compensation total to 3. On his first Action Phase he fires a Semi-Auto Burst, which is 3 bullets. That takes his compensation down to 0, meaning he has no penalty on this shot. On the next Action Phase he fires only one shot. That moves his recoil penalty down one more point, making it –1. He has to take a single die away from his dice pool before rolling his attack. He then uses his other Simple Action to Take Cover. In the following Action Phase, he uses a Simple Action to Take Aim, which removes the effects of progressive recoil and resets his recoil compensation back to its initial 3 points. (He also has the option of increasing his dice pool by 1 or increasing his applicable limit on the next shot by 1.)
On the fourth Action Phase

This isn't as wierd as it might appear at first glance: It effectively means you only build progressive recoil if you end the phase shooting (i.e. complex action or second simple action).

It always happens if you just keep pressing/pulling the trigger:
-continous use of SA-burst
-continous use of BF-long burst
-continous full-bursts (FA)

As soon as you take your finger (or mental command) off the trigger (e.g. use at least a simple action to do something else) recoil resets.

The examples are wrong at one point or another either way.

That's correct, according to Aaron and the SR5 crew.

I think Werewindlefr and Skynet are trying to say the same thing, but are misunderstanding what each other means by "applying compensation with every shot".

Werewindlefr, you're imagining it as, "This is my third shot. My current recoil is -2. I don't apply compensation again."

Skynet, you're imagining it as, "This is my third shot. My total recoil is 6. My compensation is 4. My total penalty is -2 after I apply compensation."

It's the same thing. I tend to think like Skynet does, keeping track of total recoil and re-applying compensation each round. But there is nothing wrong with only tracking the current state of recoil.

Yes, that's correct.

Alright, so everyone will now spend their two Simple Actions first Taking Aim and then firing? How is that any different at all from SS?

Recoil compensation is cheap and plenty* (so SA-burst and Long Bursts are viable options), and SS doesn't give penalty to defense rolls.

*A 10 strength character has 5 (10/3 rounded up, +1) points of natural compensation. If you add a gyromount, gas-vent, folding stock with shock pad, you can probably reach 15.

And completely wrong according the book they wrote. I'll wait for the Errata to start ignoring the clearly written parts of the book.

You can use SA to make a semi-auto-burst.

For example:
1. Phase: 1st simple action: draw your gun, 2nd action: fire a single shot
2. Phase: Because your target has a high evasion-dice-pool and your accuracy limits you, you decide to fire some more bullets to increase the chance of one actually hitting the target. Complex action: SA-burst for a total of 4 recoil (1 bullet from the last phase + 3 bullets now)

The example is confusing, but according to Aaron, it's our reading of the sentence (in the rule section) that's wrong (see the link I've posted).

It isn't, but it devalues the SA/BF/FA weapon to SS. There is nothing wrong with that scenario. Assuming, of course, that he weapon is actually CAPABLE of not taking a Complex Action for BF/FA... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

When you do that, it fires one, and only one, shot. Which is identical to SS Firing Mode. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Per the example on page 177:
Wombat takes continual recoil penalties in all phases EXCEPT the one phase where he only makes a Take Aim action. Each and every round he fires induces recoil. This may not be a problem for rifles and SMGs that can accept a lot of recoil-reducing gear, but it makes Pistols weak.

Compare this to a SS Defiance T-250; The character can Take Aim and fire a SS shot each and every round with zero penalty. I'm not sure what your examples of SA being better are trying to get at, but by the RAW single shot will NEVER have ANY penalty to recoil.

Now, if you take your Ares Alpha and slap a bunch of RC gear on it with your Strength 10 Troll's cyber gyromount, yeah you won't need to worry about recoil much. I suppose there are points that Automatics could win out, but for most runners Single Shot seems like the obvious choice.

So, Aaron and the SR5 crew say the rules as written and the example are both incorrect in saying that you need to take a complete Action Phase break from shooting to reset your recoil? Can you provide a quote? And did they mention an errata? Because the rules and examples are pretty clear in that you need to take a whole Action Phase of non firing to reset your recoil.

Only the example. The rules, are written, are being misread by us according to Aaron.

There's two links in a previous posts of mine on this thread.

They can say what ever they want, but until an errata comes out to change this, that's not how the rules work.
The actual rule printed on the book is explicit and has absolutely zero wiggle room for any other interreption(also do note that rule isn't necessarily same one that the writer of that chapter wrote)

This wording is problematic, because it is inherently ambiguous. Does it mean "an action - other than shooting - for an entire Action Phase"? Or does it mean "an action other than: shooting for an entire Action Phase"? In the first case, it would be saying that you would have to spend an entire action occupied in actions that are not shooting, whereas in the second case it would be saying you reset so long as you do not spend the entire Action Phase shooting.

Additionally, the example with Wombat is not very clear either. He opens with a 3 round burst, but it doesn't say what he does with his other simple action for this first pass, so I suppose we're to assume that it's his second simple action of the pass. His next pass he fires a single shot without having taken any other actions between firing, so his recoil is not reset and increases by 1. (How does he do this without changing firing modes?)

At this point, he spends his second simple action taking cover. Then he spend the first simple action of his third pass taking aim, at which point his recoil resets. But why? Was it because he spent two simple actions in a row (albeit spread out over two passes) in which he was not firing, thus equalling in sum "an entire action phase"? Or was it because he took any action at all, other than firing, inbetween two different firing actions? Or was it because taking aim specially resets your recoil, as some here seem to think is the case?

It's a darn good thing the first character I built for SR5 is a melee fighter! No recoil worries for me - I can happily wait around for errata.

~Umi

Looking at the links Werewindlefr posted, apparently the freelancer that did the final draft of the recoil rules dropped the ball, and messed up the example. Or, conversely, Aaron is wrong about what the final version of the rules should be, and the freelancer changed the rules intentionally.

According to Aaron's linguistic skills, you're wrong. See his explanations on the link I've given.

I did try to tell them that requiring linguistic training was asking a bit too much from players and GM, especially since a good deal of them aren't native English speakers (like me, for instance).

I do think we should insist on a rule clarification in the errata.

I agree. Even if the wording is unambiguous for people with advanced language skills, it's ambiguous for everyone else, including myself.

In a surprise move to try and resolve the recoil issue, the devs are retconning all weapons back to flintlocks, thus requiring you to then spend a complex action reloading after you fire, thus removing any and all recoil buildup. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

If they're reintroducing the arquebus, then it's more like 10 turns.

Considering the confusion that has stretched over multiple threads, that seems like it would make sense. Considering that most people in this thread (as well as you in the older threads you linked to) were of the opinion that the rule would appear to be that one must not engage in any shooting during a phase in order to reset accumulated recoil, there is obviously a difference of opinion.

Having read all of Aaron's posts in that thread, I have to say that Werewindlefr is correct, and that Umidori's second phrasing of the sentence in question in his first paragraph is apparently the correct reading. Good thing I'm on Dumpshock, because I never would have known. Patrick Goodman is apparently aware of the issue for the upcoming errata, so hopefully it gets done soon.

About how he changes firing modes. He doesn't. First its a semi-auto-burst (complex action with SA-firing mode) then a single shot (simple action in SA-firing-mode).

About the not shooting part (misread that part at first myself): In the phase he takes aim he doesn't do anything else. He starts shooting again in the following phase. So technically he qualifies for the "entire phase without shooting"-criteria.

When I first read the section I read it to mean as long as you weren't shooting the whole phase (i.e. complex action) then it resets. Makes sense to me but, boy, that phrase definitely needs some clarification or better punctuation (a comma would have made things much clearer).

Also, as to the example... where is MY Colt Manhunter?

**edit for spelling fail