 Going Macro: Life Without Nanotech, Your thoughts? |
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 Aug 13 2013, 08:35 PM
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#101
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Prime Runner Ascendant  Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022  |
QUOTE (Cheops @ Aug 13 2013, 01:11 PM)  I do find the design idea that nanites make SR less cyberpunk because they can lead to post-scarcity pretty funny given that magic can achieve the same thing. Nanite access allows the creator to model society the way they want (whether it is free and open like Star Trek or company shops like SR's Megacorps). Magic creates autocratic fiefdoms where the mages can rule in whatever manner they want. Thus it becomes a fight between the mages and those who utilize nanites to see who's version of society comes about. Man versus Magic indeed. Actually, that would be a World where Man meets Magic and Machine, would it not? Somehow, I always thought that was a central theme in Shadowrun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) |
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Aug 13 2013, 09:01 PM
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#102
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 127 Joined: 8-March 10 Member No.: 18,255 |
i've long held the idea that what AIs in shadowrun really want is to get the hell off this stupid planet where these unpredictable magic freaks hang out and into beautiful, mana-free space, where the resonance can flourish undisturbed by idiot organic magical lizard things. so that might be one way the whole machine versus magic thing could play out.
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Aug 13 2013, 09:37 PM
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#103
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Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,801 Joined: 2-September 09 From: Moscow, Russia Member No.: 17,589 |
QUOTE (lokii @ Aug 13 2013, 11:44 PM) Well, they are not self-replicating: "[..] self-replicating nanites are still the realm of fiction." (aug.105) And that settles the question of their economic impact.
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Aug 13 2013, 11:05 PM
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#104
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,962 Joined: 27-February 13 Member No.: 76,875 |
QUOTE (shinryu @ Aug 13 2013, 02:01 PM) i've long held the idea that what AIs in shadowrun really want is to get the hell off this stupid planet where these unpredictable magic freaks hang out and into beautiful, mana-free space, where the resonance can flourish undisturbed by idiot organic magical lizard things. so that might be one way the whole machine versus magic thing could play out. Except AI's have literally nothing to do with Resonance at all. Deus MAY have converted himself into some Dissonant... Thing, but he really couldn't be considered as an AI at that point any more, because he'd have become a decidedly different entity. |
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Aug 13 2013, 11:46 PM
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#105
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Great Dragon Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,088 Joined: 3-October 09 From: Kohle, Stahl und Bier Member No.: 17,709 |
QUOTE (lokii @ Aug 13 2013, 08:44 PM) That's a bit ironic though as the setting we are speaking of includes magic. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) The irony is that magic has clear limits on what it can hypothetically do, in addition to drain and any other limitations the user may face. Nanites don't QUOTE But sure, nanites in their popular conception are not scientifically sound. I think it was in some Tom Clancy novel (I sometimes feel the need to read dumb stuff for the dumbness of it, don't ask) that had the appropriate comparison: "That's like calling gang rape a minor social deviation". QUOTE But I believe Fatum has a point in both that self-replication is yet not achieved and that most of the nanotech stuff is still quite expensive. He has a point in the former, but it does not matter since unfortunately the latter is untrue: Nanites are a one-time investment (since they do not actually degrade unless exposed to the immune system) and if they ever break, oh well, buy some cheap stuff which does roughly the same and reprogram them... QUOTE ... the consequences should be more drastic. (I have given my reasoning.) And I even recognize that this would be completely impractical from the point of view of the game. That is why I don't like how it is handled. Assuming the worst possible interpretation you get the worst possible outcome. Who would have thought? |
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Aug 14 2013, 07:38 AM
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#106
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Keeper of the Timeline Maps Group: Members Posts: 410 Joined: 21-December 10 Member No.: 19,243 |
QUOTE (Sengir @ Aug 14 2013, 12:46 AM) The irony is that magic has clear limits on what it can hypothetically do, in addition to drain and any other limitations the user may face. Nanites don't Well, since they are both fiction, it largely depends on the writing. And it's the same as with this next point:QUOTE (Sengir @ Aug 14 2013, 12:46 AM) He has a point in the former, but it does not matter since unfortunately the latter is untrue: Nanites are a one-time investment (since they do not actually degrade unless exposed to the immune system) and if they ever break, oh well, buy some cheap stuff which does roughly the same and reprogram them... You can address the problems with rebalancing. (I leave it to Fatum to address the price issue, if he wants to.)QUOTE (Sengir @ Aug 14 2013, 12:46 AM) I think it was in some Tom Clancy novel (I sometimes feel the need to read dumb stuff for the dumbness of it, don't ask) that had the appropriate comparison: "That's like calling gang rape a minor social deviation". Nah, it's like calling gang rape deviant behaviour. Which it totally is.QUOTE (Sengir @ Aug 14 2013, 12:46 AM) Assuming the worst possible interpretation you get the worst possible outcome. Who would have thought? I don't think mine is the worst possible interpretation. That would be something like, you cannot do cybersurgery at all and anything but the most basic maintenance of augmentations is impossible. But we have been over this.
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Aug 14 2013, 02:37 PM
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#107
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Great Dragon Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,088 Joined: 3-October 09 From: Kohle, Stahl und Bier Member No.: 17,709 |
QUOTE (lokii @ Aug 14 2013, 08:38 AM) Well, since they are both fiction, it largely depends on the writing. Nanites are supposed to be technology and not magic, accordingly they at least have to pretend playing by the rules of science (funnily enough, the intro of M&M talked about the need to make tech seem believable...). The rules of science say that you cannot arbitrarily scale down a robot and still expect it to work. The most sophisticated writing cannot make precision manufacturing in a moshpit more convincing. |
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Aug 17 2013, 02:43 AM
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#108
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Target Group: Members Posts: 65 Joined: 25-July 13 From: Shasta Lake, CA Member No.: 132,436 |
QUOTE (Blade @ Aug 9 2013, 07:22 AM) If they wanted Shadowrun to go back to the 50s, they'd have been better off by making the 5th edition take place there, not in a 2075 where everything suddenly starts looking like the 50s all over again. I would have actually been really supportive had they merged the SR 2050 project with SR5 as a restart. Who in the 80's or 90's could have imagined how much has changed with the internet and cell phones. With all the changes we've seen, the changes to the Internet underway now to accommodate the mobile market may be even bigger than what has come before. http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/201...s-going-mobile/ As much as I loved the previous editions of SR, I thought SR4 was a major step in the right direction to keep SR from becoming dated SciFi. |
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Aug 17 2013, 02:48 AM
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#109
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 746 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 459 |
"Nanopunk" is already dated. Shadowrun is already hitching itself to the next big buzzwords "cloud computing." I'm sure SR6 will adapt to whatever the next big thing is after that goes the way of PETS.COM.
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Aug 17 2013, 03:38 PM
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#110
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
BigDataRun?
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Aug 17 2013, 05:14 PM
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#111
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 746 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 459 |
I suggested Femtotechnology (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Aug 17 2013, 05:44 PM
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#112
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Keeper of the Timeline Maps Group: Members Posts: 410 Joined: 21-December 10 Member No.: 19,243 |
The real problem is the "run" part, who uses their legs anymore? I suggest Shadowsegway. An idea that firmly plants me in the retro camp, I might add.
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Aug 17 2013, 09:32 PM
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#113
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
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Aug 17 2013, 09:38 PM
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#114
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (hermit @ Aug 17 2013, 03:32 PM) That... That.... That is just wrong on so many levels. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) |
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Aug 17 2013, 10:20 PM
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#115
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Target Group: Members Posts: 65 Joined: 25-July 13 From: Shasta Lake, CA Member No.: 132,436 |
QUOTE (hermit @ Aug 17 2013, 01:32 PM) Its the Chair Force, what do you expect? |
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Aug 18 2013, 01:08 AM
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#116
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,351 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Behind the shadows of the Resonance Member No.: 17,653 |
QUOTE (hermit @ Aug 17 2013, 02:32 PM) Upgrade to the Ares-Segway Terrier, or similar variant. It's got a seat belt and backrest so you can be upright and mobile while wholly in VR. By the artwork it even looks like it can navigate stares without too much difficulty.
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Aug 18 2013, 06:49 PM
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#117
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Great Dragon Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,088 Joined: 3-October 09 From: Kohle, Stahl und Bier Member No.: 17,709 |
QUOTE (hermit @ Aug 17 2013, 10:32 PM) Quick survey among women confirms my suspicion, that guy is totally not handsome enough to qualify for the Wish Fulfillment Fantasy Corps. |
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