You know what's cheaper and easier than hauling a decker around?

Having a dozen or so spare cheapass devices running silent.

Which is a serious flaw in the Matrix system. It's too easy & too good a countermeasure. Especially if you load up on Stealth Tags. I imagine the Matrix book will be introducing consequences to Running Silent (other then the -2 to Matrix Actions.) I probably wouldn't allow it at my table (and wouldn't use it against my players.) The team Running Silent while on a run I expect. But aggravating things by having dozens of things running silent as camouflage? Just seems cheap somehow to me.

Nope. The Assassin's Primer.

As a GM and as a player, I tend to go with 'I don't care if it is 'cheap', as long as it works'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) If it is a viable tactic, go ahead and use it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But to each their own.

Which is a serious flaw in the Matrix system. It's too easy & too good a countermeasure. Especially if you load up on Stealth Tags. I imagine the Matrix book will be introducing consequences to Running Silent (other then the -2 to Matrix Actions.) I probably wouldn't allow it at my table (and wouldn't use it against my players.) The team Running Silent while on a run I expect. But aggravating things by having dozens of things running silent as camouflage? Just seems cheap somehow to me.

Unless you decide that you're going to look for guns running silent. Or commlinks running silent. Or R4+ commlinks running silent. That strategy only works against someone who's actually considering the set of all silent devices; if you know at least one feature of what you're looking for you can look at just things that have that feature.

I don't think it works that way. the icons are hidden so you have no idea what they are or where they are only that they are there. "There are 6 hidden icons in you area" should be the only information that you get. You may ask the question "How many hidden gun icons are there," but the answer will still include ALL hidden icons because you can't distinguish what they are until you do the second test.

If I know a a feature of one of those 6 icons and go looking for one with that feature, I find the one with that feature, per the Matrix Perception Table. I still have to beat its Logic + Sleaze, but the whole cloud of RFIDs thing doesn't work against someone looking for a specific sort of icon.

MATRIX PERCEPTION
When you take a Matrix Perception action, each hit can
reveal one piece of information you ask of your gamemaster.
Here’s a list of some of the things Matrix Perception can tell
you. It’s not an exhaustive list, but it should give you a pretty
good idea about how to use Matrix Perception:
• Spot a target icon you’re looking for.
• The most recent edit date of a file.
• The number of boxes of Matrix damage on the target’s
Condition Monitor.
• The presence of a data bomb on a file.
• The programs being run by a persona.
• The target’s device rating.
• The target’s commode.
• The rating of one of the target’s Matrix attributes.
• The type of icon (host, persona, device, file), if it is using a
non-standard (or even illegal) look.
• Whether a file is protected, and at what rating.
• The grid a persona, device, or host is using.
• If you’re out on the grid, whether there is an icon running
silent within 100 meters.
• If you’re in a host, whether there is an icon running silent
in the host.
• If you know at least one feature of an icon running silent,
you can spot the icon (Running Silent, below).
• The last Matrix action an icon performed, and when.
• The marks on an icon, but not their owners.

Running Silent
You can switch your commlink, deck, other device,
or persona (including your living persona, technomancers)
to silent running. This reduces your traffic
to and from the Matrix, but it doesn’t stop it entirely.
Running silent makes it easier to avoid detection, but
harder to use the Matrix as a whole.
Switching to silent running is a Simple Action. Running
silent imposes a –2 dice pool modifier to all of your
Matrix actions due to the processing power needed to
cover your tracks.
If you’re trying to find an icon that’s running silent (or
if you’re running silent and someone’s looking for you),
the first thing you need to do is have some idea that a
hidden icon is out there. You can do this with a hit from
a Matrix Perception Test; asking if there are icons running
silent in the vicinity (either in the same host or within 100
meters) can be a piece of information you learn with a hit.
Once you know a silent running icon is in the vicinity,
the next step is to actually find it. This is done through
an Opposed Computer + Intuition [Data Processing] v.
Logic + Sleaze Test. If you get more hits, you perceive
the icon as normal; on a tie or more hits by the defender,
it stays hidden and out of reach.
Note that if there are multiple silent running icons in
the vicinity, you have to pick randomly which one you’re
going to look at through the Opposed Test.
Marks can’t run silent because they’re already pretty
hidden, but all other Matrix objects can be switched to
silent running by their owners.

So, in your version of the rules, at what time can you be said to know one of the features of an icon running silent? And how does filtering for that feature differ at that point differ from attempting the same based on that feature any other time?

Really, the obvious synthesis here is that you can locate a given icon based on a feature, but if there are multiple icons with that feature you must look randomly between them.

When I say your version, I mean your reading of that text. Because I'm going by the same text, and disagree with your reading - specifically because you completely ignore part of them. Specifically, you ignore the but about spotting an icon based on a known feature, which any reasonable reading would take to mean that if you have a feature to go off of, you don't have to randomly consider the set of all hidden icons.

If you know at least one feature of an icon running silent, you can spot the icon (Running Silent, below).

It is directly contradicted by the very reference in that note.



Bolding mine. The chart directs you to see the Running Silent section, where it lays out that you cannot perceive a Running Silent icon in any detail without first making the opposed test.

So no, you don't get to skip the opposed test by assuming a feature of the icon.

The opposed test? Of course not, never said you did. Perhaps if you read a little more closely, you'd see that I'm saying you skip having to randomly consider each and every Silent icon until you find the one you're looking for - rather, simply the set of all Silent icons possessing that feature. Meaning that the cloud of RFIDs trick doesn't work, but if you're looking for wireless guns and there are 3 dozen of them around, you still have to go through each of those in random order.

Note that if there are multiple silent running icons in
the vicinity, you have to pick randomly which one you’re
going to look at through the Opposed Test.

That's the general rule. There is a specific rule pertaining to when you know at least one feature about what you're looking for.

This is not a reading comprehension issue. This is a "I'm reading ALL the rules and you're reading SOME of the rules" issue, because you've decided to ignore a piece of the rules.

Point it out. The reference you're using specifically directs you to the running silent rules, which state that you can't act on a running silent icon until you've made the opposed test, which is targeted against a random running silent icon of those available.

It points there because outside of that change, it follows all other rules for dealing with a Running Silent icon - meaning you still must win the opposed test.

Indeed, but again, note the wording. The opposed test is targeted randomly among all running silent icons in the host/your detection range. Not all running silent icons of a given type, because if they were broadcasting the device type, then they wouldn't be running silent, now would they. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Or randomly from all devices with a given feature. Loosely defined type is certainly a feature.

You're adding something here that the wording of the rules does not support.

It'd be nice if it did, and honestly this is a section that's going to get houseruled when I run with it, but it flat doesn't.

Exactly what it says, if there are multiple silent running icons in the vicinity, you have to pick randomly which one you’re going to look at through the Opposed Test.