Okay, according to rules for bonuses, you can't go +4 over your max attribute. (SR5 Pg 94). Wired Reflexes and Reaction Enhancers seem to overrule this when you're wireless. But Adepts...

Improved Reaction and Improved Reflexes. Improved Reflexes gives up to +3 to Reaction and +3d6 to your Initiative. Improved Reaction gives +1 Reaction per level, and costs .5 cheaper per level than Improved Reflexes.

However, looking at this, I don't see any reason to ever buy more than one level of Improved Reaction. Go with Improved Reflexes, get your +3 Reaction, then grab Improved Reaction for your final +4 - because I don't think they stack over +4. Or do they? Improved Reaction says 'up to your augmented maximum', which makes sense. Improved Reflexes says no such thing.

Any insight would be welcome - is there an overlapping redundancy here, or is this +1 to +3 from Improved Reflexes much like Wired Reflexes, and 'stackable' over +4 (which would mean probably a maximum Reaction of +7).

My understanding is that nothing (Wired Reflexes and Reaction Enhancers are the sole exception - at least currently) can raise a stat to more than 4 higher than your natural attribute (not your max attribute, btw).

So you can stack certain bonuses, but you can't have a higher bonus than +4 over your natural attribute. So if you have a 4 strength, the most you could have is +4, meaning an 8.

If you were a troll and had a 9 strength, you could get +4 and have a 13.

Cyberlimbs are also slightly different, in that they can be "customized" to the racial maximum, and then have 3 points of Agility and/or Strength added.

Also, some items don't stack with other items, even if they would not go over the +4 limit.

Okay, so this raises the question:
If you're a human with Reaction 6, you can use Wired Reflexes to get 9, and ... what happens if you get Reaction Enhancers 3? Are those last two points 'wasted', when you're wireless? The way I read it, it would allow you to get the full benefit of both, which I think would put you at ... 12? If they had simply said 'Wired Reflexes gives you +3 Initiative and +3d6 dice', that would be something. Or have Wired Reflexes give +1d6 Init, +2d6 Init, +3d6 Init and +1 Reaction', so Reaction Enhancers aren't all but useless if they didn't want these to stack.

With Adepts however, this is the same issue. Improved Reflexes + Improved Reaction, why on Earth would anyone take Improved Reaction more than once?

Remember that I said that Wired Reflexes and Reaction Enhancers are the exception (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If I have a Reaction of 6, and Wired 3 and Reaction enhancers 3, then if their wireless link is NOT on, then I have a Reaction of 10. If their wireless link IS on, it is 12.

As for Improved Reaction - well, to be honest, you wouldn't. Improved Reflexes is +1 Reaction and +1d6 Initiative and costs 1.5 PP. Improved Reaction is only +1 Reaction and 1 PP

Improved Reflexes 3 is +3 Reaction and +3d6 Initiative, and costs 3.5PP, while Improved Reaction 3 is 3PP and only gives you the Reaction Bonus.

So, you are correct, there really is no reason to take Improved Reaction when you can just take Improved Reflexes - except that .5PP per level that gives you the extra Initiative Die.

Actually it's 9. WR and RE don't stack at all unless wireless is on.

Thanks Epicedion - missed that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yeah, but I think pretty much everyone's willing to pay the .5 extra per level to get the init die on top of the Reaction bonus. The thing is, Improved Reaction is almost completely pointless, except for that single +1 when you first take it. I'm going to have to houserule that these two stack, allowing for a maximum of +7 Reaction if you max out both (for a whopping 7.5 power points - good lord). There's no reason why one power should make another one obsolete, in the main rulebook.

actually, because IPA:Reaction is not a direct init boost it will stack with Adrenaline Boost.

Which brings the next question... Why would not Improved Reflexes work with Adrenalin Boost. The fact that they do not stack is just dumb.

both are initiative boosters & both have the oh so typical initiative boost bad lingo "Does not stack with any other form of initiative booster be it mundane, magical or cyber based"

Yeah, I guess... *sigh*

I'm not very worried about any of this. Improved Physical Attributes as a whole remains useful, just maybe not the reaction enhancement past the first point, if you only care for the change in initiative. If you care only about your reaction, then it's conceivable you can choose to go for it, even up to IPA:Reaction 4. Even though for 0.5PP you get +3D6 init. I don't foresee many cases where this would be the case, but I don't find any of it a problem.

Also, in terms of adept vs. Sam balance? The street Sam here is paying essence (and tons of cash), triggering metal detectors, holding on forbidden equipment permanently, and necessarily being vulnerable to hackers in order to get the supposed advantage. He also can't get to those speeds out of chargen.

So what's the big deal again?

I guess one word to describe it would be "streamlining" but there may more fitting ones...

The way I read it, you can't even stack 1 level of IPA:Reaction with Improved Reflexes. IPA:Reaction is an adept power that increases your Init by 1 - so an adept can have either one or the other - but not both. I see two types of adepts:
1) Improved Reflexes
2) Adrenaline Boost + IPA:Reaction

IPA:Reaction is not an "Initiative enhancement" it is a stat enhancement that also happens to boost initiative as a result.

It is still a magical power that increases initiative - which is all Improved Reflexes mentions. There is no "Initiative Enhancement" wording in the power. In fact, only Synaptic Boosters use that phrase.

Except that the increase to initiative is a Secondary function & only through the modification of Derived stats. ALL other things that increase initiative increase the init stat directly. I do not believe they are trying to limit Derived stats.

I don't think so either. You couldn't improve your intuition either which is.. well, counter-intuitive.

Reaction Enhancers don't - you are just reminded to increase the derived stats that depend on Reaction - which is pretty much exactly the same thing. They provide a secondary effect but can't be stacked with Wired Reflexes without wireless being activated.

Whether it is oversight or working as intended, RAW don't allow IPA:Reaction to work with Improved Reflexes.

And if you're right, IPA:Intuition as well?

To the best of my knowledge IPA:Intuition doesn't exist because it isn't physical.

Good call, I got confused with spells which can increase mental attributes as well.