Or you just have your operatives in the GOD. Access, on a silver plater.



No, I didn't, and I follow the current excuse for a metaplot. Have you seen a company switch from Linux to Windows, or back again? That's an immense undertaking that's taking a massive amount of time and resources, often taking more than a year, and leading to all kinds of emergency stops throughout the system. At the same time, even Fastjack, Smiling Bandit and Slamm-O! knew jack shit about the new Matrix, which'd cost billions and thousands if not millions of human years to develop and implement.

Shadowrun 2050, p.149.
And grounding certainly gave Astral more reason for existence, other than as a scouting and messaging medium.

Its an abstraction. You can't expect the game to perfectly simulate reality. If you want that, then house rule it. But to me, it makes sense. Making the hand sign for love with your AR gloves while reaching for your cyberholder or baton makes sense to activate it and would be quicker than reaching for it and then pressing a button and then to have it deploy in your hand.



Then why are you arguing that they were taking out, if you understand why they were taken out?



Its both. One in the same. In order to have your devices communicating with one another, they have to be on the Matrix. Wireless on, is on the Matrix. The core rulebook is designed to give you enough information to play with. I'm sure the Matrix book will add a number of layers to make this more complicated. Just like Unwired. You don't like it, house rule it.



Common sense does help. So how would you repair internal cyberware? Because you seem to lack imagination, I'll tell you. The internals can be accessed with panels. A head commlink/deck would probably look something like Mr. Data from Star Trek. Something more invasive, like an internal air tank probably has a hollowed out chest cavity with a panel on the breast to access and even replace the air tank, along with the internals. I'd imagine wired reflexes have a small computer placed at the base of the neck or spine to regulate it. Is this an assumption? Yes, but I think its a pretty damn safe assumption.



Really? Is that why the rules for burning out wireless exist in SR4?



Jeez, almost like how the music industry pretty much gave up a lot of rights to Apple to try and stop music piracy? Totally unheard of to ever happen. If the wireless Matrix of SR4 for security was so inadequate, what makes you think the corps wouldn't have a knee jerk reaction to solve the problem when a division of the Corporate Court says that they've got an answer?



And as soon as an agent of GOD is found to be undermining a member of the Corporate Court, we get another Corporation War, or the Corporate Court sends a thor shot on the HQ of the offending corporation and their AAA status is revoked. Yeah, that sounds great. Very worth it, as opposed to hiring Shadowrunners.



Oh no, we have to suspend our disbelief a bit more in a world of Dragon CEOs, banks in space, and a working wireless mesh network. How can a fictional setting about corporations with near limitless resources possibly be able to upgrade all the wireless devices over the course of days or weeks, when everything is already connected to the wireless mesh network, and are receiving wireless updates over the Matrix to keep programs up to date, as has already been established in the canon. There is definitely no way that a commlink can be updated over the wireless.



I don't own it, so I'll take your word for it. But did we really have to wait until 4th ed to get a reason why it was removed?

I don't agree on either point.
Character creation now forces all 5 priorities into a tier, which means you have to spend what you have at that tier.
There is no flexibility anymore - take a tier 1 mage, you MUST have 6 magic, 2 rating 5 skills, 10 spells...even if you don't want em.
Since there's no negative for maxing out a stat, more players are min-maxing their characters more than they ever did in 4th Ed.

I don't see the combat as "deadlier" either.
- Now, instead of one attribute used for dodging, EVERYONE gets two.
- Where there used to be encumbrance rules, now a body/strength 1 character can wear any armor they want.
- With no ballistic/impact difference - melee does even less potential damage.
- Gun modes just take away defense now, they don't increase damage, so extra damage from FA or BF is basically gone.
- Hell, you can't even fire two shots anymore without cutting your dice pool in half.
- The accuracy system caps hits on the attack, but does nothing on defense. So you might get 7 hits on your attack roll, but that troll is still rolling 30 dice on defense and has no cap on hits.
- Even spells do less damage now that they've nerfed direct spells and doubled target defense dice.

Why do you need a Matrix uplink for flipping a peace sign to open your cyberholster? In the world of nano-sized computers?

They're taken up to support a particular mechanic. My argument is that the mechanic is ridiculous if basic physics (like, you know, transmitting wireless commands directly between devices, or transmitting signals over wires) have to be taken out for it to work.

Because no two devices can communicate directly now? Despite the WMI Matrix being p2p mesh?

Good luck replacing burned internals (and that's what bricking does, before you ask, p.228) through a comm jack; or good luck making an access panel on an implanted device that lets you access the entirety of its internals.

No, it isn't.

I am sure music industry has A LOT of trade secrets from Apple *fp*

Because in that division, nine of ten employees come from your bitter rivals' ranks, that's why. Because the basic principle of any security, network or not, is keeping strangers out.

Of course, the only known reaction to finding an employee of another corporation working directly against you is a Thor shot. *fp*

Settings work on internally consistent logic, if suspension of disbelief is to be maintained. When one failed project sends a megacorp into a downward spiral, replacing the entirety of the world's network infrastructure flies in the face of any kind of logic.

Last time massive renovations had to be done to Matrix infrastructure was after a global Crush, and it still took a few years to bring the new matrix to full speed - despite it being a p2p mash, that is, incredibly scalable even without supporting infrastructure.
Do you have your OS updates enabled? Try updating to another OS, with a complete overhaul of underlying network protocols to boot.

Maybe we didn't, I wasn't around at the time.

Also, for your oft-repeated "if you don't like it, houserule it". It's blatantly obvious that the less subsystems that have to be hand-patched to be workable a gamesystem has, the better it is. SR5 by that estimation is currently much worse than SR4AE.
I frankly tried compiling a list of houserules for SR5, but minding that the book contradicts itself regularly, I just couldn't be bothered to finish that job.

This is a correct observation. But it does not say anything negative.



Not entirely true. Because they still can't wear a helmet or shield without taking encumbrance. And if you think someone rolling 12 armor + 1 body for a soak test with 9 condition boxes, how long is that person going to last against a Ares Predator V with -5 ap with APDS doing 8p? So lets play the average game. 13 - 5 = a soak dp of 8, average of 3 hits. Lets assume our shooter gets only 1 net hit after our body 1 guy dodges, so that Predator is doing 9p. 9p - 3 soak = 6p. Our 1 body runner now had only 3 boxes left and is taking -2 to all actions. That body 1 runner sure did break the system by wearing an armor jacket without penalty.



You do realize that melee damage is now strength + weapon, right? Not strength/2 + weapon, right? So you understand that melee does more base damage, right? You do understand, you can't look at rules without context to how other rules affect them, right?




You do realize that a narrow burst gave you a whopping +1 dv. While wide burst is the way normal burst fire is in SR5. What a game changer. If only there was an easy way to house rule the old narrow BF mode or something.



Oh no. If only there was a new rule on something like a semi-auto burst, that makes firing a SA gun into a complex action and fired 3 bullets on one turn. But I understand, you'd rather be able to kill someone so quick that they have no chance for an action of their own.



By defense, I assume you're talking about soaking, not about dodging. In which case, it sure would be nice if a mage knew a spell that ignores armor and is resisted with only one stat, but everyone thinks its totally useless. Or if there was armor piercing ammo. Or if only you could stealth by that troll and just totally avoid the fight. But nope, there is definitely no way to counter a troll rolling 30+ soak dice.



Yep, direct spells are totally gimped and unusable now because you can't one shot everyone with no drain, because that was balanced. Oh, and of course, even though direct spells are only resisted with one stat, lets pretend like its two, to help illustrate how bad SR5 is. And its not at all like indirect spells have been buffed and made to actually be useable by reducing their drain and giving them ap = to force. Yep, magic is totally useless now, lets all roll street sams, so we can be hacked by our own decker who we can't trust.

A narrow burst in SR4 gives +2 DV (which in nonmathematical average is something like 6 additional dices).

SYL

For every person who likes point-buy systems, you'll find a person who hates them. At the core, however, build points and karmagen are simply too expert to be used as the basic, unadorned character generation system. They're fiddly, calculationally intensive, and prone to error. For people who aren't super-knowledgeable about the game, build points can be a huge turn-off to character generation.



Combat is deadlier on average, but prone to "miss or big hit." In SR4, you were much more likely to take 1 or 2 points of damage from any given attack. In SR5, you're more likely to take 5 or 6 points of damage from an attack that hits, but generally more likely to be missed (and thus take 0). What this means is that a gun that delivers a big wallop, like an assault or sniper rifle, is far more likely to severely injure, cripple, or incapacitate a target with a single hit. It makes getting shot a bigger event.

Note that base melee damage was increased by a sizable amount, putting it on par with heavier weaponry. An average dude with a combat axe is putting out better damage than he can with a heavy pistol.

Note also that burst fire decreases defense -- this has the double effect of increasing damage (increasing net hits) and reducing the chance of dealing 0 damage. To say that automatic and burst fire don't increase damage is simply wrong.

Dice-pool splitting for multiple attacks puts things more on par with SR3, where in order to put multiple effective shots downrange you'd have to burn through your combat pool. This is a break from SR4's aberrant "everyone hits all the time but does crap damage" mentality.

The troll isn't rolling 30 dice on defense. He might roll 30 dice on soak (which would itself be amazing). The soft-ish cap on defense is 20 dice, which is maxed out augmented everything and behind cover, whereas the soft-ish cap on attack is 24 dice, which is maxed out augmented everything and a smartlink. The attack limit (with no defense limit) gives the defender the occasional break, but it's certainly not heavily stacked in his favor.

Direct damage spells deal consistent damage versus one defense stat, for what likely amounts to "free" Drain cost. They could probably use some options (hopefully in the forthcoming magic book) to make them a little more clearly useful. That said, indirect damage spells are far and away awesome, since they can do big damage with huge AP and set you on fire.

With the exception of direct damage spells, this puts SR5 back in the ballpark with SR2-3 with respect to combat. SR4 is such a huge deviation at this point that these sorts of arguments you're making are just more fuel to my opinion that people who think SR4 is the bee's knees just don't like Shadowrun that much.

DeathStrobe, you should really just post everything in italics, it is the sarcastic font.

-In 4th ed, a low strength/body character couldn't wear anything above a vest, which changed how people played and encouraged people to diversify their stats.
- Is your argument in defense of unlimited armor really **NOT HELMETS!!!**? Without an impact armor stat, defenders basically get double their old armor dice on melee soak.
So, double the defense dice, double the armor dice and defenders don't have any limits. I'm not convinced that's deadlier.

"Automatic and burst fire don't increase damage" that is a fact. They just decrease defense dice. We could previously add as much as +9 to the DV on one hit or +5 on two attacks.
That's nice if your opponent is rolling 10 dice on their defense, but if they're below that for some reason, it's just net hits only - which is the minimum anyway.

The gun argument is just silly, we've gone from something like 10 possible firing mode choices to 1 that increases damage.
All this "one shot" talk is really just proving my point.
Since you (and consequently, your opponents) can't 1-shot people anymore...the system has become less deadly.

Feel free to disagree, but in my opinion, the new system favors the defender and punishes the attacker.

This really falls into the category of "who gives a shit?" The SR4 Matrix was tedious, bland, and relatively nonexistent (since there was no apparent "backbone" to ride along, making each node an island only accessible by proximity, and no one ever had their wireless turned on to support the peer-to-peer aspects anyway). Now it's gone. They could've said it happened by infectious computer space monkey viruses and that would've been just fine.

Eh? One-shots may be unlikely based on normal distribution peaks, but dice don't always land on the peaks.

Joe Security (body 3) in an armor vest (armor 9) gets shot at (defense 6) by a guy with an ares alpha (attack 14, damage 11 AP-2).

The attack gets 6 hits on a burst. Joe gets 1 hit back. Joe needs to soak 16 damage on 10 dice. Joe soaks an amazing 5 points and still dies.

Yup, one-shots are definitely impossible.

Then use a voice command, or DNI. You don't have to use a hand sign, it is merely an example of a free action that can be used to represent how to make a cyberholster to deploy. If you don't like it, adapt something else to work.



I'm not clear what you are trying to argue. Are you saying that wireless shouldn't exist because it makes everything too easy to hack, or that everything should be wireless because its unrealistic to have everything wired?



They are communicating directly, but it just so happens that its also being transmitted to the wireless Matrix as well. If you want some logical fluff behind it, the Matrix protocols are probably designed this way to make sure GOD can home in on illegal Matrix activity.



Because we all know that computers are totally not modular, so it'll be impossible to simply replace or repair a burned out fuse or other burned out system.



I thought the rules for burning out your wireless was in Augmentation, but I can't seem to find it. But it honestly doesn't sound like you can turn off your cyber's wireless in SR4 at all. Its just something people house ruled because they fear hackers.




Not all the Megas need to agree, just enough to make the new protocol happen.



The idea is that they are undermining the Corporate Court. Unless you would prefer a world without Shadowrunners, and at that point, it makes me wonder why do you play this game? The CC is the reason for Shadowrunners to exist as deniable assets. If Corporations could have their own guys working against other corporations directly, without fear of CC reprisal, then Shadowrunners wouldn't exist. The Thor Shot is merely the extreme form of CC reprisal.



Wait, so the Ares Excalibur makes sense, but new Wireless Matrix doesn't? How?



Have you never upgraded a computer or mobile device's OS before? Its normally pretty easy and painless, other than having to learn the new features of the OS. You make it sound like upgrading requires a PhD or something. A lot of updates are now completely automated. Take for example my iPhone. It now downloads App updates in the background, so I don't have to manually do it all the time. Do you think the future would not make almost all this upgrading near seamless?



All systems require house ruling. Because either rules can be ambiguous or just unclear. Do you have your hacker edit the Access Log before they jack out every time they hack something in SR4? Or how about doing a Matrix search, do you have them use their Analyze program + computer or their Browser program + computer to find files? Or do you allow a hacker to do an hacking search and replace the skill with hacking instead of computer and make the computer skill totally useless? Do you make it so that if they need admin access, but only have user, that they have to start all over hacking the firewall but with a much higher threshold with the firewall already having hits to detect them, or do they get to start their current access and only need to get the difference in threshold to get admin? Its not like SR4a is perfect and doesn't have weird ass rules that can be interpreted differently.

That is simply not true. Good rules, good explanation, nothing more is necessary. If you want a 5 minute quick start (something you will not achieve with either point or priority without an extreme good knowledge of the system) you can use archetype or point arrays. There are many other RPGs out there (both rule light and heavy) which use point buy and who are not really recognized as (SLA, Eclipse Phase, CP2020, in some regards Feng Shui, DnD just as some examples)



FA 10 bursts say hi (to the one-shot-stun bolt which seems to be such a big evil for the SR5 crowd). To generalize the attack/soak/defend SR4 system as "1 or 2 damage" is simply wrong. Even when not talking about extremes live 40 dice soaking trolls or 15 shot miniguns you take damage fairly fast fairly easy (look at the usual values even for very good equipped people vs some shots from a shotgun).



Which is simply a lie as well. depending on values, armor, used weapon and situation you can take only a few points of damage ... or you are dead ... or you are something between. What is true that it is indeed fairly simply to damage people (attack is stronger in SR4 than defense).

SYL

In SR4 you can reach each node in the world from the other side of the world (if the node is connected to the matrix and if you are authorized of course).



Just like the NPCs in SR5, yes? Way to go to introduce the nifty wireless boni to make deckers useful again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

In that regard SR4 hat a way better system to make a hacker combat useful (except for the extended test of course which were really a negative point in SR4).

SYL

Ummmmm...
Not sure how you completely missed a Section called "Turning it Off" in the "Wireless Connectivity" section of the SR4A Book. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
See Page 314.

I am afraid that the writers of SR5 see it differently if I remember the discussion correctly on Jackpoint. There is no device => device communication anymore in SR5 - because when asked they confirmed that wireless boni do not work in the desert or in wifi inhibiting buildings, even when standing next to each other.



There are no rules for burning out wifi in SR4. You can of course crash the system so it has to reboot, change permissions etc, depending on the specific device.



Perhaps you should check again your basic SR4 book. There is an entire chapter for wifi security => .



No, official rules in the basic book are usually not considered house rules.



Thats a very bold statement. I would rather say that runners exisits, because it´s a very non-perfect world which failing societies, high crime rate, lots of poor people, weak states and insufficient law power.



Have you ever upgraded a network system in a small company? Its normally not pretty easy, as it required long preparation, backup plans and usual on the spot problem solving, especially in older heterogeneous grown networks.

SYL

Your examples are an unpopular game, a version of the SR4 rules with a different setting, and an unpopular game (in part due to its overt complexity). Want to fit Rolemaster in there somehow?



Yes, the one example of an attack that does massive damage but at a huge penalty to hit is the lynchpin of the system's balance. Back in the quasi-normal realm of pistols and SMGs, however, you tend to nickel-and-dime your enemies. Big damage hits are pretty far out on the curve.



Calling something a lie just because it disagrees with your sensibilities is dickish.

SR4 was balanced attack-forward but damage-weak (ie, you hit more often but do less damage per hit). SR5 was balanced defense-forward but damage-heavy (ie, you hit less often but do more damage per hit).

Now, combined with the "need to do more damage than armor or it's Stun" rules, this means that in SR4 you're more likely to deal stun damage, love-taps, and grazes, to the absurd extent that gearing for stun damage is more often than not the most effective mode of operation (the risk of splitting damage is high, and the penalties for damage are low). In SR5, when you hit you're more likely to deal major hits more consistently on the physical track.

The system is objectively more deadly because you're more likely to max out someone's physical track with fewer connecting shots.

You can totally one shot people though. Take for example, a strength 10 troll with a combat ax which will do 15p with -4 AP. I don't think very many people will be able to soak that to live and tell the tale of that one time they got cleaved in half by a troll with a combat ax.

Now if we use that same troll in SR4, he'll do 9p and -1 AP. Now call me crazy, but I can't help but think to myself, that taking 60% more damage and getting 4 times that AP, does make SR5 just a bit more deadly. I could be wrong though.


Or lets even go with the low end. Say we got Joe Average who has 3 stats and 3 skills to whatever we need him to have. He's got himself a nice holdout pistol to keep himself safe when he goes out of the Arcology for a night on the town.

In SR4; he's got a Streetline Special, doing 4p. Single shot, so he can only fire once a turn.

But in SR5, Joe has the new Streetline Special that does 6p and is now semi auto.

Both games he's only rolling 6 dice. But oh no, looks like an orc in an armor jacket is harassing poor Joe. The Orc is pretty tough, 4 body. In SR4 armor jacket is 8 balistic. In SR5 the armor jacket has 12 armor.

Playing the averages, because they're quick to calculate. Also the ork is either surprised by Joe's gun or things he can take it on the chin and laugh it off later.

SR4, Joe fires and gets 2 hits. It does 6p. The Ork gets 4 hits on the soak and takes 2s.

SR5, Joe fires, get 2 hits, and does 8p. The Ork soaks and gets 5 hits and takes 3s.

While it is only a 1 box difference. I think it does help illustrate that SR5 is in fact more deadly than SR4, because this is the low end. It gets worse with better gear.

How? There was no "the Matrix" to be "in" so that you could traverse the expanse of linked nodes. SR3 had the telecom grids, SR5 has its grids. What did SR4 have?



It's bonuses.

Which NPCs in SR5 are you talking about? All the NPCs in my games have on or offline gear as necessary, as do the PCs, yet no one has fallen into an apoplectic fit over it.



The system that would see you finding your first target about 5 combat turns after he's dead?

No. But it´s interesting to see that you try to disapprove the argument by saying "they are unpopular systems". DnD in all it´s incarnations is unpopular? Where are you living? Bottrop-Kirchhallen? Perhaps you can have a better argument on why exactly a, lets say 20 point system is prone to failure?



So you are talking about the normal realm. Very well. Lets take the classic setup of body 4 and 8 armor (armor jacket / helm), so 12 dices to resist. Lets assume for the sake of the argument only 1 net hit: 12 dices vs 2x 8P damage (5P base damage, 2 for narrow burst, 1 net hit), average roll. which is 4 net damage per burst and 8 damage for two bursts after damage reduction (and yes, the 5 points recoil can be compensated).

In one complex action.

You claimed "1 or 2 damage", now using your own setup we are at 8 damage. Even with 20 dices to resist two bursts can be dangerous, and that is not even counting multiple net hits (attack is stronger than defense in SR4), used up actions for full defense, special ammuniation or stacking negative modifier for multiple defense rolls.

As long as you are not playing an armor stacked orc or troll even a heavy pistol is something to consider, especially in the normal realm (your words). It may not the most dangerous thing in the world (especially considering FFBA, synthweave, platelet factories and trauma damper) but you cannot simply reduce it to "1 or 2 damage all the time".

Just as a side note: I am running a high powered campaign with a 36 dice soak troll. He can take hideous amount of damage, especially from weak enemys (pistols, short burst MPis etc). The moment however where competent, professional enemys show up (with corresponding weapons, assault rifle, MG, long bursts etc) he usually receives a little bit more than 1 or 2 damage. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)



Using wrong statements to make a system bad is what exactly? Either a lie or a mistake. And I think even using your statements that your statement is ... wrong. As it seems I assumed that you know the SR4 system. In that regard I may be wrong and I would then redact the statement that you are a liar. You simply do not know the SR4 system.



Yes, but that does not mean that you only take 1 or 2 damage as you claimed. Go ahead, take the SR4 street samurai (or make a streetsamurai of your own) in the normal realm (no 40 dice soaking troll tank, no 25 dices supernsiper) and lets see what some shots or bursts from a shotgun, hunting rifle, MPi, low level assault rifle etc do with the samurai.



That may be the case but that is not something I have commented. I have just commented some of your mistakes or lies (your choice).

SYL

...

Really?

Just from the beginning of the matrix chapter in the SR4 basic book:



Please: at least read the basic SR4 book and the basic rules before even thinking about commenting them. You have now commented several times on the SR4 basic rules and made extreme mistakes. No one is expecting a walking encyclopedia, but basic rules like "you can turn of wifi" or "nodes are linked" should really be known before you comment on SR4 and how bad or good it was. Otherwise you should perhaps reduce your statements to "I like SR5 and I don´t know SR4 that well", which is perfectly fine of course.



Please correct me but didnt SR5 Mission stated that all NPCs have turned off their wifi?



Please read what I wrote. I confirmed that extended test were one of the negative things in SR4 (and it is one of the things SR5 did right by reducing them). The introduction of wifi bonuses would not have been necessary to make hackers "combat viable", only the removal of extended tests. Independent from that SR4 already had systems in place which could be manipulated in combat (especially without extended tests). The discussion if it is really a good game design that you want to make deckers combat viable by adding online battons would have not been neccessary.

SYL

Professional arms dealer would surely advise him to use a SA light pistol. And yes, if you want to compare values you should be so fair to inlcude SA weapons for SR4 because 2 shots/bursts can make a lot of difference when compared to one shot/burst combat system, where only one attack action is possible. Or make the comparison with a Cav Scout (4p SA in SR4).

Just for understanding: I am not claiming that SR5 is not deadly (it is pretty much obvious that it is).

SYL

I'm not going to take the time to try every possible combination. But I assume if you are interested, you can give it a shot and find out. Maybe a full augmented troll tank, vs a elf adept sniper. Or whatever really. Its just a simple bit of anecdotal evidence to quickly disprove that SR4 is not more deadly than SR5.

D&D isn't a point-buy game, or at least 3.5 wasn't. It flirted with point-buy attributes in 3.0, but those were casually misplaced later.



And that's all stun. In SR5, two short bursts would be folded into a long burst, providing several extra net hits from the defense reduction (even considering higher starting defense pools), and the damage (higher base damage + net hits > armor) would look more like 9P. Something about "more deadly."



Someone in another thread asked "so what's Dumpshock like these days?" Answer: people generally being shitty to each other. Bravo.




Last things first: I don't really care about Missions. Missions aren't the same thing as the core system.

Now, by your quotes, devices route to devices route to devices route to devices. Either:

1) You can hack someone's security level 5 Ares black-ops dildo in Japan from the comfort of your Seattle penthouse (ie, mutual signal range is ignorable), or
2) There's nothing on the Matrix and you're stuck working within mutual signal range.

Most people appear to hybridize the two uncomfortably for convenience, so that the nightclub is "on the Matrix" while the broadcasting security drone node is "not on the Matrix" even though they're both online.



The only thing SR5 did wrong was package wireless bonuses as "wireless bonuses." Instead, "offline penalties" could've been equivalent and less controversial. People are averse to risking to gain, but they'll risk to avoid loss.

Both of which explicitly don't work comparably in SR5. In fact, by the base book rules, given that much of the 'wireless bonuses' list is basic functionality, DNI technology has somehow apparently regressed by at least 50 years.


Either that, or physics broke somewhere, and now a wireless signal is faster than direct transmission over fiber optic cable. Over a shorter distance. With less impedance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)