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Jack VII
post Feb 9 2014, 10:47 PM
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QUOTE (hermit @ Feb 9 2014, 04:39 PM) *
Because mancers who like sprites don't need to be just pretty, they also need to be smart. I'd rule both apply. No contradiction, but another leg iron.

LOL! Yeah, TMs definitely need something else to keep their rampant power in check in SR5...
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FuelDrop
post Feb 10 2014, 12:37 AM
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QUOTE (Smash @ Feb 9 2014, 04:51 PM) *
It reads that way but I doubt it. Most pistols would then have a fairly pointless recoil statistic.

unless they spend a lot of time firing semi-automatic bursts...
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FuelDrop
post Feb 10 2014, 12:38 AM
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QUOTE (Jack VII @ Feb 10 2014, 06:47 AM) *
LOL! Yeah, TMs definitely need something else to keep their rampant power in check in SR5...

Amen. I saw a technomancer... succeed in a data search check. My god, the metahumanity!
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Smash
post Feb 10 2014, 01:09 AM
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QUOTE (FuelDrop @ Feb 10 2014, 11:37 AM) *
unless they spend a lot of time firing semi-automatic bursts...


Good point. I'm just not sure that dropping back to a single shot every now and then is enough. I'll have to see it play out I guess.
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tete
post Feb 10 2014, 01:13 AM
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AWESOME!!!! any idea when it will see print? I'm guessing another 6 months but at least now I can print it myself.
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tjn
post Feb 10 2014, 04:11 AM
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QUOTE (Samoth @ Feb 9 2014, 07:30 AM) *
I would expect it to fix everything since it took 6 months to produce and we had tomes of errors collected here with provided fixes that they completely ignored. It's a nice gesture but really more insulting than releasing nothing considering they broke more stuff with this release anyway.

This is why we can't have nice things (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) I understand your feelings, but at the end of the day they're humans just trying to do their best at what is essentially just a hobby. Is it perfect? No, but it's a step in the right direction and it's progress towards a better game. It's almost impossible to get everything perfect on the first, second, or third try, as such it should be an iterative process and I look forward to the next effort.

Thank you Patrick and everyone else involved with making this a reality, and may tomorrow's Shadowrun be better than today's.
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FuelDrop
post Feb 10 2014, 04:20 AM
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Amen. Errata is good (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) keep them coming!
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FuelDrop
post Feb 10 2014, 04:20 AM
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Errata: Ignore double post from user FuelDrop.
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RHat
post Feb 10 2014, 04:29 AM
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QUOTE (hermit @ Feb 9 2014, 03:39 PM) *
Because mancers who like sprites don't need to be just pretty, they also need to be smart. I'd rule both apply. No contradiction, but another leg iron.


Imagine applying the same to magicians and spirits for a second - certainly you can see where the issues with inter-tradition balance would set in, yes?
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Medicineman
post Feb 10 2014, 05:42 AM
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QUOTE (Prime Mover @ Feb 9 2014, 05:05 PM) *
A "BIG THANKS" to the errata crew !


Yeah
A Thanks from Germany too
I hope more Erratta will follow

HougH!
Medicineman
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Shortstraw
post Feb 10 2014, 05:56 AM
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QUOTE (Medicineman @ Feb 10 2014, 03:42 PM) *
Yeah
A Thanks from Germany too
I hope more Erratta will follow

HougH!
Medicineman

With a missing dance?
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FuelDrop
post Feb 10 2014, 06:05 AM
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Errata: Post 35. Above the line HougH! insert 'With an errata'd dance'
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Thanee
post Feb 10 2014, 07:50 AM
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A question about Mystic Adepts: Can they buy new PP for 5 Karma when they raise their Magic Rating post-chargen?

Bye
Thanee
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SpellBinder
post Feb 10 2014, 08:08 AM
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QUOTE (Thanee @ Feb 10 2014, 12:50 AM) *
A question about Mystic Adepts: Can they buy new PP for 5 Karma when they raise their Magic Rating post-chargen?

Bye
Thanee

Probably not, but it's what I'd allow & do.
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tasti man LH
post Feb 10 2014, 08:36 AM
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QUOTE (Thanee @ Feb 9 2014, 11:50 PM) *
A question about Mystic Adepts: Can they buy new PP for 5 Karma when they raise their Magic Rating post-chargen?

Bye
Thanee

Here's what the errata says on the matter:

QUOTE
POWER POINTS AND MAGIC CLARIFICATION
(P. 279, POWER POINTS PARAGRAPH)
Change to following sentence: “You get a free Power Point
whenever you increase your Magic attribute, and you can gain
a Power Point through Initiation (p. 324) instead of gaining
a metamagic.” To: “If you’re an adept, you get a free Power
Point whenever you increase your Magic attribute (though this
doesn’t apply to mystic adepts, and you can gain a Power Point
through Initiation (p. 324) instead of gaining a metamagic.


So basically, Initiation is the only way you're getting any PP if you're a mystic adept.
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tjn
post Feb 10 2014, 09:43 AM
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QUOTE (Thanee @ Feb 10 2014, 02:50 AM) *
A question about Mystic Adepts: Can they buy new PP for 5 Karma when they raise their Magic Rating post-chargen?

Bye
Thanee

I think (and I could be wrong) the official interpretation, for Missions and the like, is that the only way a Mystic Adept can get additional PP post-chargen is when initiating, and then the character selects a PP instead of a metamagic technique. I also think this is the most common interpretation due to fears of Mystic Adepts being overpowered.

However, neither the errata nor SR5 explicitly states that the 5 karma per PP up to your magic rating is only limited to chargen, so under a strict interpretation, buying PP up to your current magic rating for 5 karma would be RAW. That being said, the Missions errata specifically states you can buy PP up to the characters starting magic rating, not current magic rating, which, if read literally, has some nonsensical results.

As a house rule, I wouldn't have a problem with it as it lowers the demand to buy all 6 PP in chargen which then opens up spending the chargen karma for a more well rounded character, and if the character is already at the magic limit, going through the process of raising the magic rating is karma intensive enough as to make me shrug. And really, compared to grabbing another spell for 5 karma, 1 PP usually isn't enough to sweat.
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Samoth
post Feb 10 2014, 11:36 AM
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QUOTE (tjn @ Feb 10 2014, 05:11 AM) *
This is why we can't have nice things (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) I understand your feelings, but at the end of the day they're humans just trying to do their best at what is essentially just a hobby. Is it perfect? No, but it's a step in the right direction and it's progress towards a better game. It's almost impossible to get everything perfect on the first, second, or third try, as such it should be an iterative process and I look forward to the next effort.

Thank you Patrick and everyone else involved with making this a reality, and may tomorrow's Shadowrun be better than today's.

Just a hobby? Maybe for you and I, but it is literally their job to create a usable/accurate product. On this site alone there is a 20+ page thread of eratta. Aaron, Patrick, Bull, and others have said they were working on a full eratta and we get this 2 1/2 page single-lined document that breaks more things and doesn't address issues known since June. The SR regime under Hardy is making the SR3 run under Rob Boyle and Steve Kenson look like the freaking Golden Age.

Some people here seem to be ok with paying real world money for terrible customer service and a spotty product, but forgive me for not sharing that sentiment.
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hermit
post Feb 10 2014, 11:52 AM
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QUOTE
Just a hobby? Maybe for you and I, but it is literally their job to create a usable/accurate product.

Hardy's job. All the others are freelancers who live off actual jobs.
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Samoth
post Feb 10 2014, 01:02 PM
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QUOTE (hermit @ Feb 10 2014, 11:52 AM) *
Hardy's job. All the others are freelancers who live off actual jobs.


Yeah, I know? Catalyst are responsible for the ultimate product but when freelancers tell us "the eratta is in the works" and "this will be in the eratta" and then it's not, it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in them either.
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Patrick Goodman
post Feb 10 2014, 02:43 PM
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QUOTE (tete @ Feb 9 2014, 07:13 PM) *
AWESOME!!!! any idea when it will see print? I'm guessing another 6 months but at least now I can print it myself.

They're working the changes into the book as we speak; I'm not sure when the updated PDFs should be out, but it shouldn't be too much longer now, IIRC. You should get an email from your PDF purchase place when they're ready.

If I'm reading things correctly, the changes should make it into the third printing, but I'm not certain about that. Depends on when the second printing sells through.
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Sengir
post Feb 10 2014, 05:04 PM
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QUOTE (hermit @ Feb 10 2014, 12:52 PM) *
Hardy's job. All the others are freelancers who live off actual jobs.

If a freelancer gets hired to do job X, it is his job. That's why they are freelancers and not fanfic writers. Anything above and beyond (and drafting a clear agreement where to border to above and beyond lies) is obviously not their job, but "if it's a side job you're not responsible for quality" is just wrong.
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Fatum
post Feb 10 2014, 05:29 PM
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Oh why the heat up.
We've already discussed in another thread that doing the job for money is the only thing that makes you a professional; no responsibility or self-consciousness is implied.
Why are you constantly on CGL's case, people are just pursuing their hobby to the best of their ability.
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Samoth
post Feb 10 2014, 05:52 PM
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QUOTE (Fatum @ Feb 10 2014, 06:29 PM) *
Oh why the heat up.
We've already discussed in another thread that doing the job for money is the only thing that makes you a professional; no responsibility or self-consciousness is implied.
Why are you constantly on CGL's case, people are just pursuing their hobby to the best of their ability.


Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but are you defending Catalyst for putting out a broken product and then not offering any official fixes for over 6 months? Nobody is blaming the freelancers.

My gripe is that there are two giant communities of fans (here, and the official forums) that would happily bug check and re-format the base files FOR FREE and they don't bother to take advantage of the fan base OR even listen to what we're saying in terms of real life playtesting and fact-checking. Maybe there are legal issues I am unaware of in regards to letting freelancers fix the product, but as a hobbyist I have done far less exciting work for no pay, and would happily do all the formatting and error checking for $1 and a freelancer credit in the book if that's what it took to make it legal.

It just comes off as lazy and insulting when there are errors noted in the eratta thread from day one of the PDF release that somehow didn't make it into this eratta document, including several instances where changing merely one word can make a huge difference in understanding the rules as intended, but they didn't address them.

Now, will they release more fixes? Probably, but with the amount of errors we've seen from the core book alone that were not addressed for whatever reason in this first fix, it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence - that goes for the supplements that have been released as well, most notably GH3. I fear we're going to be looking at a SR5.5 release in a couple years since they don't seem in any hurry to address a long list of issues that keep large portions of the game in houserule-only territory.
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Jack VII
post Feb 10 2014, 05:56 PM
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QUOTE (Samoth @ Feb 10 2014, 11:52 AM) *
My gripe is that there are two giant communities of fans (here, and the official forums) that would happily bug check and re-format the base files FOR FREE and they don't bother to take advantage of the fan base OR even listen to what we're saying in terms of real life playtesting and fact-checking. Maybe there are legal issues I am unaware of in regards to letting freelancers fix the product, but as a hobbyist I have done far less exciting work for no pay, and would happily do all the formatting and error checking for $1 and a freelancer credit in the book if that's what it took to make it legal.

Given the unpaid internship boondoggle over at Conde Nast and some of the other big magazines, there probably is. With that said, I believe there are several gaming company websites that state that anything posted to the website is property of said company. Seems like that could be a work-around...
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Sponge
post Feb 10 2014, 08:49 PM
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Maybe some kind of "rules wiki" as a live document that people could contribute to (with probably some amount of moderation/validation) could work. There'd be plenty of devilsome and time-consuming details involved - it would probably require some detailed annotation concerning what's official and/or approved and what's still "pending suggestion", voting/"liking" on suggestions, a trusted review committee, and viewing it might have to be login-restricted to those who have purchased a PDF - but ultimately it could alleviate a lot of the apparent bottlenecks involved in finding and fixing stuff.

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