You're all too nice to an old farmboy.

But I have always had a soft spot for riggers. Not because I liked the driving mechanics (I never found them inspiring) but because I like all the other things one can do.

One of my best-loved concepts was actually a mage who rigged using a trode system. He wasn't the last of the great wizards, and he tended to focus on crazy little drones which annoyed the crap out of everybody until they saved everybody's hides - and then go back to annoying the crap out of everybody.

Still, when your nickname is "Medic" you get a few free passes.

Blast, I have been traced!

I would love to see more noncombat civilian and industrial vehicles and drones.

Runners will go ahead and weaponize them anyway, but seeing stuff used day to day in the rest of society would be nifty. Construction drones and vehicles, household and office drones, robot taxis and golf caddies, PMVs and tow trucks. Stuff that makes a place feel "real".


-k

-

Don't worry. The drones coming your way are there to help you leave behind your self-destructive, criminal activities and embrace a new, safe, productive way of life complete with comprehensive surveillance (for your security), strictly managed access control (for your convenience) and precisely planned work (for your happiness).

Noncompliance will be met with incremental stages of persuasion.

Also sprach Lofwyr.

This will combine well with descriptions which explain what is drone-managed, and to what degree these drones are semi-automated.

For instance, I could absolutely see a commercial kitchen being a rigged environment. No cooks, just a chef-rigger, and everything inside being constantly sanitised by rigged sani-dronelets. Basically, a rigged food factory.

A good place to start would be the top ten most dangerous jobs according to government statistics.

Hard rock mining is a great candidate for major drone work.

Build a rigged environment, analogous to a security rigger's, for gardening. One guy operating from his gardening truck rigs a small army of drones which eat lawn clippings and wood chips for fuel, and keep the gardens of the rich and powerful neat.

Not much power in the eastern corner of the 'plex (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Lofwyr is patient. Lofwyr has many, many years to accomplish the benevolent embrace of dissident troublemakers. Perhaps he buys a block here, a factory there. Eventually it will all come within his grasp.

Run while you can, little mammal. Run, run, sweat and cringe in your holes and cracks, hoping to evade his gaze for another day.

Uhm äh ja...go go Allianzverschwörung!

Selbstverständlich kannst Du noch einen beibringen, zum Beispiel Schneeflöckchen, als Konkurrenz für Lofwyr? Sonst vielleicht Schwartzkopf? Die Beiden zusammen!

Of course, now we've thoroughly derailed poor Wakshaani's thread. Sorry, Wakshaani. Have a beer on us.

No worries! You added a lot of value to the thread, so a little waywardness is completely forgiveable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Der ist Schweizer und kann blieben wo er ist...
(and from my tangential understanding of the story, the idea is not to replace Big L with another dragon)

BTT, I remembered one other thing -- Sensors. The rules from Arsenal were better than calculating MP costs per minute as in SR3, but still had several issues
- The rules for upgrading were a bit too simplified. One R6 camera, fill the rest with unrated sensors, total Sensor Rating 6...wut?
- Default sensors were only specified for Vehicle-class packages.
- A lot of sensor options were really missing any reason to be there (barometric, range finder), while others were ZOMFG overpowered (UWB)

I love Koekepan's post! Especially

Exactly--it is nice to know what the corp security may be running, or what standard drones are working in the ship-yard, but shadowrunners have a budget and ingenuity, so they are going to want to come up with all sorts of cobbled together, brilliant/unstable franken-drones.

From a few recent sessions, here are things we've wanted in the way of fairly low end civilian drones:

- a 'mechanic' drone, probably tracked with ability to raise and lower the main body and a variety of tools. A mechanic's assistant, or remote mechanic (long distance truckers might carry one, for example, then if they have trouble could call a rigged up mechanic to jump in and see what they could do--or more primitively running off its own smarts to fix things)
- a camera that can move around, even if slowly, rotate, zoom in, etc. It doesn't need to be fast, allow you to bolt on weapons or anything--just take pictures/trid recordings.....and be fairly cheap. A fairly mass-market consumer product.
- a simple 'mule' drone (not wildly different from what the US military is working on currently--if it can be done by 2020, should be falling-down easy in 2074)). All terrain quadruped walker that can carry a couple hundred kg, size of a large dog, can be set to follow someone or be given very simple orders, can handle stairs and fairly steep slopes, and move at a jogging pace. I'm thinking that by 2074 this would be a do-it-yourself 'maker' project, with designs and programs off the net.
- landscaping drones and agricultural drones (they are in use all over the place--but if a rigger could subvert them, just what could you do with one? More generally, how to stat out miscellaneous drones of all sorts)

More specialized ('security' stuff, possibly?)

- a 'queen ant' and dumber, smaller, drones that can be deployed as a cluster. Rigger can control the 'queen', the super small 'workers' can be spread out to provide a basic sense coverage (visual or maybe ultrasonic), within some shortish range of the queen (50 metres or so?). Basically not paying for smarts in every unit (in terms of cost or size), but letting you rapidly deploy coverage over an area.
- A 'shield' drone. Heavily armored, able to drive as a vehicle, once deployed pops up/out armor panels, to let security forces have mobile cover in high threat situations.
- Amphibious 'explorer' drones, able to travel over water and land effectively while carrying a good sensor array. I was actually looking at these as sewer inspection drones, but they'd have other uses.

ETA: and this without a player rigger. Either things I've wanted for the NPC side of things, or things that the NPC contact mechanic/low-level-rigger/small scrapyard owner could cook up for player use. The mule is currently helping carry supplies through tunnels under Seattle that even the orcs don't venture into much....nice to have your level 6 first aid kit, food and water, and all the ammo you think you could ever need.

Yes! In fact, a remote rigged/drone tow truck/roadside mechanic makes so much sense it hurts.

You know what else? A similar device run by DocWagon for remote ambulance services. Basically a mix between a medical robot, a gurney, a drone, and a mobile surgical unit.



Very nearly real today. Just not quite mass market. I expect to read about some idiot being arrested for driving one into the women's bathroom within ten years, real life.



Again, absolutely. The drone answer to a wheelbarrow, or travois. This needs to exist.



This very nearly exists today. And absolutely should. You might also find many of them on farms.



Yes! Look at some of the swarming robot posts you can find online. I know that MIT is doing a bunch of research on those, or was recently, and they do show some interesting potential.



Both of these make some sense, depending on context.

Queen and drones.

What's thw world comming to when drones have Rigger COntrol Consoles of their very own? (Babies makin' babies!)

I don't see that as being useful absent an AI riding the drone.

However, nothing says that the parts of a drone (i.e. the ants) can't be regarded as effectively being independent limbs of the central unit (the queen).

That's a given, I think. You could buy gardneing drones (Pilot 2, Yardscaping Autosoft 2) on their own, but a larger, more expensive core unit with a built-in RCC would have a Yardscaping 4 autosoft that it could share with the network, resulting in better performance. (Check the current Rigger rules for this, which I'd missed until recently!) That build, however, opens up all kinds of similar systems, such as mining. Doors open = creative opportunities.

So, you get functionality for cheap, but improved with the higher investment. This opens you up to ideas like nested subsystems or having cheap broadcasting towers that control legions of drones... take out the tower and the drones aren't as useful. That leads to cool adventures. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That's called a Valkyrie Module and listed in Arsenal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

That was a good book. Not the style of entry I'd have preferred, but a good book.

Believe it or not, I don't have Arsenal. But it does seem like a logical thing to have.

I would also expect to see lots of infrastructure maintenance drones. They might even save net energy over sending out crews of skilled workers.

I would like a 40/60 split between Vehicles/Drones. The reason for this being that there is a multitude of drone types that I, as both a player and GM, would like to see. This would benefit both Riggers and Deckers, the latter of which can find themselves fairly useless when there isn't any matrix overwatch or hacking to be done. Further explaination down below.


50/30/20 for Civilian/Security/Military. For SRM players, more access to civilian vehicles for non-Riggers would be great while SRM Riggers (a rare breed) would get more toys on the security level to protect themselves and transport their team. And by team, I mean their toys. For the home campaign types, it gives both the GM and Players something to have fun with with military vehicles. For example with myself -- as the Rigger on my team who in his previous occupation was an drone gunship pilot, I eventually want to get a Tundra transport aircraft to drop in drones and gear for my team when needed. I do understand that the Tundra is accessible during character creation, but a 300k money sink at the beginning of a runner's career that will be rarely used isn't ideal. And the drones and gear that I would like to utilize isn't in 5th Ed or exist at all.


I would like to see variety of drones in each category. My biggest concern is for the Rigger or Decker that feels they are ineffective in certain combat situations. As a Rigger, I know that I can just stay in my van and run my drones in VR and adjust for noise. But I know there are situations where I MUST be on the ground because I'm the tech guy who deals with physical hardware or engineering stuff. There are also situations were as a Decker that I need to help my team in some way but my meat stats just suck ass. So, by having a couple small combat drones and a budget RCC (which is protected by a Cyberdeck/commlink), one could provide fire-support with SMGs, or Machine Pistols.

In other words, I would like to see more small drones. Take the MCT-Roto-Drone for example. It is a medium drone that can carry a heavy mount (not at character gen), but you have it's baby brother that is the size of a clothes iron when folded up, carried in a backpack and tote an SMG/Pistol.


I would actually like to have images of vehicles and drones so that EVERYONE knows what they are seeing. For example, I always thought and described the Roto-Drone was a 4-prop VTOL platform (like today's modern) when it's really not, or that I described a CDC Dalmatian as similar to a predator drone, but it's not. Possibly color art for more popular choices and B&B or blue print style art for other items.


I would like to see a 30/40/10/10 split between ground/air/water/other.


I don't believe a BifS system would be needed. What I would like to see is a section on modding CLEARLY describing what is needed for repairing drones/vehicles, cost and test thresholds. For example - Team got into a vehicle battle and the Roadmaster took a couple Assault Cannon rounds, but survived (as it should). While it still works, it needs to be repaired, so you reference the repair charts in the Rigger book. Roadmaster has a Body of 18 and Armor 18, which means it falls into the category of needing a facility to repair. It would cost X nuyen at 5% of original cost per box of damage and a Logic + Automotive Engineering (Wheeled) extended test with a threshold of Boxes of Damage + (Body / 2 or 3) per week.


Prices should be in the Matrix Book for Deckers to dabble in Rigging. It should be more detailed and concrete in the Rigger book which would include pricing, option, etc.


Doesn't matter. Give me something to work with.

So I was trying to build a wearable drone for a character. This would consist of a full mechanical arm with some sensors that could be strapped to the character's shoulders. The original idea was to use this for reloading guns and doing other useful things like that.
Limited maneuverability +minidrone, right?
Except I couldn't find many minidrones that I was happy with. I'd like to see a little more selection in that area.

While I'm on the subject of wearable drones: If I can put strength and mobility upgrades into a suit of milspec armor, wouldn't it be neat to put a rigger adaptation in there as well? Then I could have a suit of armor that moves independently or semi-independently. You could get up to all sorts of shenanigans with that.

Sorry, this is a strange obsession of mine.

Just use an Otomo. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

First, would you rather the focus be more on vehicles, more on drones, or evenly split?
I woud say about 35/65 split, as vehicles are less diverse IMM

Would you rather vehicles be more civillian style, security, or military? (For instance, 60 civillian/30 security/10 military, for percentages.)
55/40/5, but give options, like "this is the standart civil Van, but give us more money and you get the sec. version (better Handling, less Luxus)", or "We have this cool sec. 4x4, we also have a Military version with LMG mount and Mineshielding, and for all you guys in managment, why dont you get he Luxus version and use it as **** Prothesis?" These guys did a good job, one Chassis, 5 or 6 uses. Yes I know, just mod it, but not every Rigger wants to mod, also riggers are not the only buyers of Vehicles and Drones, and as GM I woud be glad to have a bunch of possibilities.

Would you rather the drones be more civillian style, security, or military?
45/50/5 Same as above, not much dedicatet mil. Hardware, more options to the sec. drones.

Would you rather have fewer things with large write-ups and art (For example, Run and Gun style) or more things with smaller write-ups and little-to-no art (Similar to the SR5 core book)
More Suff is More Good. I like the Idea of Chirth with a FlySpy sized picture, i think blueprints or technical drawings are top, as the paintjob always is up to the owner. Also give it more of a catalouge feel, not like this mess called RAW where it is impossible to find anything.

Similar to a bit above, how would you like to see a split between ground, air, water, or "other" transportation? (Shadowrun! In! SPaaaaaaaaaace!)
40/40/15/5, Nothing new to add here.

Mods would seem a no-brainer, but would you like to see a "Build-it-from-scratch" system, or is that a waste of space since no one buys a Facility?
I would Kill for a good BfS system, but i think most people wont, so: Make a good mod system and deliver the BfS in a extra PDF or so.

Should Autosoft and Pilot programming rules be found in the Rigger book or in the Matrix book?
At least have a good Upgrade system, then ill be able to wait for the Matrix book. Assuming a good collection of Programms to chose from the shelf. Also: Define wich programms run on a RCC.

What vehicles/drones that have been published in previous editions need to make a comeback? (Merucry Comet or DEATH!)
I hope most of the stuff from the Arsenal gets a revive, but i dont care if its under the same name.

I would Love a Container Ship, as i'm looking for one as a Base.

First, would you rather the focus be more on vehicles, more on drones, or evenly split?
Depends on how many are being made if it's 20 or so entries I'd say 50/50, but if it's say 60 I'd go 20/80. We have a good list of vehicles to work with already but a few more won't hurt. I feel the choice of drones is somewhat lacking, but don't want them to drown out the vehicles.

Would you rather vehicles be more civillian style, security, or military? (For instance, 60 civillian/30 security/10 military, for percentages.)
Once again, it depends on what you are planning for the military vehicles tanks and aircraft carriers? Not so much so 60/35/5. Stuff like the MPUV and the Appaloosa? 50/30/20

Would you rather the drones be more civillian style, security, or military?
20/60/20

Would you rather have fewer things with large write-ups and art (For example, Run and Gun style) or more things with smaller write-ups and little-to-no art (Similar to the SR5 core book)
Run and Gun style ftw!

Similar to a bit above, how would you like to see a split between ground, air, water, or "other" transportation? (Shadowrun! In! SPaaaaaaaaaace!)
60/30/10/0

Mods would seem a no-brainer, but would you like to see a "Build-it-from-scratch" system, or is that a waste of space since no one buys a Facility?
With a build it for scratch system I would love you forever.

Should Autosoft and Pilot programming rules be found in the Rigger book or in the Matrix book?
Meh, I guess the Rigger book for ease of reference, but the Matrix book makes sense too.

What vehicles/drones that have been published in previous editions need to make a comeback? (Merucry Comet or DEATH!)
MPUV!

Personally I'd probably give Drones a 60-65% focus, other vehicles for the remainder. I'd expect that Drones are really prevalant in society in general, and honestly, how many vehicles is a runner (team) really likely to drive any given point in time? A rigger going on a run is likely to have i.e. one transport vehicle, and a handful or two worth of drones for various purposes.


Civilian: 60%
Security: 30%
Military: 10%
Sounds about right. And could I pls. ask that we be spared stats for nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers, S.H.I.E.L.D. Helicarriers and the like that comes with a pricetag north of 2-digit million amounts of money. Sure, it's fun enough to know the theoritical stats for a B-2 Stealth Bomber, but being realistic for a moment, what runner team is EVER going to get into a position to actually acquire such a thing? If we are going to get that kind of stuff, put it in it's own 5$ small page-count pdf book.


What I'd like to see is a good variety of stuff that you are likely to encounter in the Shadowrun world. Civilian stuff is available to the average runner. Security stuff is available to the connected runner. Military stuff really shouldn't be something that the average runner is liable to be getting a hold of all that often.
Personally I'd go with something along the lines of 60% Civilian, 30% Security, and 10% Military. Please note though, that when I say "civilian" stuff, I mean primarily stuff that is useful to stat out in a game context.
Also bear in mind that some decent rules for modifying stuff makes civilian drones much more useful to a runner. A cheap toy UAV that can be mounted/modified with some improved sensor capabilities or a small gun at an affordable price, is useful. A cheap toy UAV that can't be modified, or which can only be modified at a cost that makes it overly expensive compared to its abilities, is not useful.
Drones ought to be stuff that a team can afford to lose on a run on a regular basis, especially stuff designed to go into combat.


Personally I'd go with a style along the lines of 4A ed. Arsenal book with drawings of some of the stuff, but but not necessarily everything. Make sure to include information that is relevant to the game, like passenger and load capacity for vehicles for instance. And if you are going to make drawing of stuff you describe, please try and actually make the thing in the picture look like the thing being described in the text...


Ground: 55%
Sea: 20%
Air: 20%
Other: 5%


I'm not opposed to a functioning build-it-from-scratch system, but to be honest, I'm tempted to say that getting such a system to actually work and balance within the game, is more trouble than it'll be worth. I'd rather have a really good set of modification rules that would allow you to upgrade various specs and systems on a drone/vehicle. Also, I'd like for said system to make a bit of real-world sense. I mean, taking 4th ed. as an example, why should you really have a problem changing both tires, the engine, some software, and bolting a couple of fixed machine pistols to the front, and an improved sensor package on the back? Trying to do this within the old system could likely land me in trouble with a lack of modification slots, but there really isn't any good reason why that should be the case. Software doesn't take up physical space. Tires and engine replace or improve stuff that's already there, and the only new stuff added are the guns and the larger sensor package. RAW something like that ought to be possible without GM approval IMO.


Personally i'd put it in a Rigger book, but an argument could be made for putting an abbreviated version of it into a Matrix book as well.


I'd like to see most of the actually useful stuff from previous editions, which ought to be available in the time of 5th ed., make a comeback, plus some new useful stuff. Personally I was always quite fond of the Harley-Davidson Scorpion, Indian Pathfinder, Eurocar Westwind 3K, Hyundai Shin-Hyung, Tata Hotspur, Ford-Canada Buffalo, Zemlya-Poltava Crest, Hughes Aerospace Emblem, MCT Fly-Spy, GTS Tower, and the Renraku Stormcloud.

And finally, do by all means find and take inspiration from the different kinds of drone/robot that are being worked on at the moment. Some of the other posts have some good references and ideas. Think in terms of where drones/robots might be incorporated into society today, and help either improve people's quality of life, or make various functions cheaper, easier, or more efficient than today, by incorporating drones/robots.