 What is it about 3rd Edition? |
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 Sep 27 2014, 07:44 PM
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#226
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Grand Master of Run-Fu  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178  |
QUOTE No, I only speak legalese. When you claim that all BP-gen characters you've seen have the same meaningful characteristics - "same gear, primary dice pool of 20+, same set of secondary skills, etc" - and then proceed to contrast that against the wonderful priority system than even allows for craziness like sammies with carbines, even your denying-the-obvious powers leave little space for interpretations. Nope, still not seeing where I said: "All BP characters are identical" or even "All BP-gen characters have the same meaningful characteristics." I'd ask you to quote me, but then we'd get another rant on how you can twist the word "same" out of context. You keep using that word. I do no think it means what you think it does. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif) QUOTE That table is the source of multiple woes, especially minding that its general descriptions do not match the skill-specific. So, you cite 4,5 when it supports your argument, but ignore it when problems come up? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) QUOTE Far too clunky, and the curve is out there. Players struggle to detect hits even with fixed TNs as it is. That's actually a matter of straightforward statistics. If players are struggling to get successes when the odds are basically 1 in 3, their dice pools are too small. With exploding dice an a TN of 4, the odds are about 50/50 per die. So yeah, the odds favor the player in SR3. QUOTE Not really. With Reaction + Intuition as the base defense pool, it becomes more difficult to hit people, although if you didn't feel any need for cover, it might have been that you were fighting generic foes like gangers or security guards. Shadowrunners are not the best of the best any longer, and there are plenty of enemies at their level or above now. DrZaius' SR5 pit fight threads show that the game can be deadly when your optimized character meets an enemy that is similarly powerful. Limits don't help, either. With a low-Accuracy weapon, it's much easier to dodge than soak, and there's no Limit on most Dodge rolls. Since combat is basically a series of opposed tests, all else being equal, they guy with the higher limit wins-- and with no limit, the advantage goes to the defender. |
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Sep 28 2014, 03:03 AM
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#227
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Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,801 Joined: 2-September 09 From: Moscow, Russia Member No.: 17,589 |
QUOTE (Cain @ Sep 27 2014, 11:44 PM)  Nope, still not seeing where I said: "All BP characters are identical" or even "All BP-gen characters have the same meaningful characteristics." Right, because the primary skill, secondary skills and gear that you claim to be identical are not the meaningful characteristics of a character. QUOTE (Cain @ Sep 27 2014, 11:44 PM) So, you cite 4,5 when it supports your argument, but ignore it when problems come up? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) That's a problem with interpretation, not with the ruleset. QUOTE (Cain @ Sep 27 2014, 11:44 PM) That's actually a matter of straightforward statistics. If players are struggling to get successes when the odds are basically 1 in 3, their dice pools are too small. With exploding dice an a TN of 4, the odds are about 50/50 per die. So yeah, the odds favor the player in SR3. They're struggling to detect hits, not to get successes. Dice get painted 5s and 6s, etcetera. With a variable TN, things will become this much worse. |
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Sep 28 2014, 03:21 AM
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#228
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Shooting Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,973 Joined: 4-June 10 Member No.: 18,659 |
QUOTE (Fatum @ Sep 27 2014, 09:03 PM) They're struggling to detect hits, not to get successes. Dice get painted 5s and 6s, etcetera. With a variable TN, things will become this much worse. Your players need remedial kindergarten, then. If they can't reliably identify what numbers are on the face of a die... |
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Sep 28 2014, 03:28 AM
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#229
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Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,801 Joined: 2-September 09 From: Moscow, Russia Member No.: 17,589 |
Roll 20 dice, spend the next half a minute counting dots. Fun!
Extended tests for ultra super fun! |
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Sep 28 2014, 04:54 AM
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#230
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Shooting Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,973 Joined: 4-June 10 Member No.: 18,659 |
I just rolled 20 dice to test, it took approximately five seconds to determine number of successes.
Your players are clearly defective. |
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Sep 28 2014, 05:06 AM
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#231
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,351 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Behind the shadows of the Resonance Member No.: 17,653 |
It's the American "Common Core" education system.
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Sep 28 2014, 05:57 AM
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#232
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Shooting Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,973 Joined: 4-June 10 Member No.: 18,659 |
Must be. Hell, if it's that much of a big deal, Chessex sells blank cubes. Just paint two sides black and go on with your life.
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Sep 28 2014, 06:25 AM
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#233
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Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,801 Joined: 2-September 09 From: Moscow, Russia Member No.: 17,589 |
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Sep 28 2014, 09:57 AM) Must be. Hell, if it's that much of a big deal, Chessex sells blank cubes. Just paint two sides black and go on with your life. And that's going to help with variable TNs how, exactly? *fp*
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Sep 28 2014, 08:33 AM
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#234
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Shooting Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,973 Joined: 4-June 10 Member No.: 18,659 |
QUOTE (Fatum @ Sep 28 2014, 01:25 AM) And that's going to help with variable TNs how, exactly? *fp* If your players can't count to potato, variable TN's are probably not for them. They should stick to SR4 & 5, which have simplified the TN system to only require counting to potato. |
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Sep 28 2014, 09:40 AM
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#235
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
QUOTE (Fatum @ Sep 27 2014, 08:03 PM) Right, because the primary skill, secondary skills and gear that you claim to be identical are not the meaningful characteristics of a character. How can you see, when you backpedal that quickly? Nice try, but start again, with my actual words. QUOTE That's a problem with interpretation, not with the ruleset. So when it's a problem with your favored system, it's interpretation; but when it's a problem with a system you haven't explored, it's ruleset. Gotcha. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif) QUOTE They're struggling to detect hits, not to get successes. Dice get painted 5s and 6s, etcetera. With a variable TN, things will become this much worse. Not really. Considering that SR3 had much smaller dice pools overall, counting successes were much easier. |
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Sep 28 2014, 11:55 AM
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#236
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
I prefer the variable TN system to the variable Dice Pool System of SR4.
One of the stated design goals was to reduce the ammount of dice being rolled. And yet you get pools of 20 to 30 easy in SR4, where that was seldom and hard work in SR3. And at a certain point, getting more DICE was useless in SR3 and thus discourated players from trying to do so . . Whereas it was imperatively important to get TN modifiers that stack with each other for stuff, because TN10 was easy to get as a result to have to roll to succeed. Even worse if you needed more than one hit as well. In SR4 and 5, as it stands, all they did was shift the ammount of dice you roll from often smaller ammounts to less often bigger ammounts of dice. |
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Sep 28 2014, 01:27 PM
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#237
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
The variable TNs went up a bit too quickly for my liking in combat, where you could too easily have both sides missing each other because it was too difficult for even the sharpshooters/marksmen to hit anything. On the other hand, they worked much better for social skills, where conditional penalties meant something (although part of the problem in SR4 was that when they changed them from TN mods to dice pool mods, they left them as, is instead of increasing them a lot, allowing bloated social dice pools to blow right past mods that should have been significant hindrances).
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Sep 28 2014, 02:47 PM
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#238
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
Yeah, that's when the melee specialist gets his go.
Either tanking damage like a boss untill he is in reach or being too hard to hit to stop him from coming into reach. In buildings, this is a bit more viable than outside. but outside you at least have drones to cover your ass usually. Now, the decking and rigging TNs going up that fast and high was a bit problematic, as there was not much that lowered the TNs again . . |
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Sep 29 2014, 07:44 PM
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#239
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
I have to say, in SR3 and earlier, really huge dice pools were very rare. The most I ever rolled was 20, and that was for some really unusual circumstances. (The most I've heard of was documented in a CLUE file somewhere: 28 dice, IIRC, and he critically fumbled.) Starting with SR4, 20 dice was the norm.
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Sep 29 2014, 08:40 PM
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#240
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Mr. Quote-function Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,316 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Germany Member No.: 1,376 |
QUOTE (Cain @ Sep 29 2014, 09:44 PM) (The most I've heard of was documented in a CLUE file somewhere: 28 dice, IIRC, and he critically fumbled.) A very specific one trick pony starting character can roll between 27(30) in offense and 33(36) dice in melee without combat pool which is 8. The values in brackets are when trying to disarm an opponent. |
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Sep 29 2014, 10:11 PM
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#241
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
QUOTE (Cochise @ Sep 29 2014, 01:40 PM) A very specific one trick pony starting character can roll between 27(30) in offense and 33(36) dice in melee without combat pool which is 8. The values in brackets are when trying to disarm an opponent. Not that I'm doubting you, but how do you manage that? For those who haven't played classic Shadowrun: your core dice pool was just your skill. So, if you had Firearms 6, you rolled 6 dice. Concentrations and specializations added to the specific skill at the cost of reducing the general skill, and then you could add Combat pool (or other applicable pool) up to your general skill. Since combat pool was also your only means of dodging, using it all up wasn't usually a good idea. |
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Sep 29 2014, 10:29 PM
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#242
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
Twinked out Wakyambi Adept with a Scythe Weapon Focus if i remember correctly.
ADEPTS can start out with 18 dice in any skill they so please to have. 6 skill, 6 improved skill, 6 combat pool, done. This makes them pretty much useless at anything else, but it works. One of the things where the SR3 Priority System was hillariously broken. Priority A for Ressources of 1 Million Priority B for Magic limited tp Adept Priority C for 24 Attribute Points Priority D for 30 Skill Points to use Priority E for limited to Humans only. So yes, you can totally be a Bio-Adept with 2 Points of Bioware and still have 5 Points of Magic. If you swapped around Ressources A and B up there, you could still be a full Magician with a still respectable 500k Bankroll in Character Creation as well. |
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Sep 29 2014, 11:48 PM
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#243
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Sep 29 2014, 02:29 PM) Twinked out Wakyambi Adept with a Scythe Weapon Focus if i remember correctly. ADEPTS can start out with 18 dice in any skill they so please to have. 6 skill, 6 improved skill, 6 combat pool, done. This makes them pretty much useless at anything else, but it works. That's 18 with combat pool, which is impressive, but still not the 27/30 without combat pool mentioned above. Also, I recall that it was hard to start with a bound weapon focus at chargen in SR3. |
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Sep 30 2014, 12:02 AM
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#244
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
Hard, but not impossible.
And a Weapon-Focus gave bonus dice to the skill used with it even under SR3 rules already. So a Force 6 Weapon Focus would bring that up to 24 already. Then factor in stuff like enhanced artwinculation, specialization and concentration and martial arts and you are there abouts. |
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Sep 30 2014, 12:14 AM
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#245
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Sep 29 2014, 04:02 PM) Hard, but not impossible. And a Weapon-Focus gave bonus dice to the skill used with it even under SR3 rules already. So a Force 6 Weapon Focus would bring that up to 24 already. Then factor in stuff like enhanced artwinculation, specialization and concentration and martial arts and you are there abouts. I just double-checked. It *is* impossible for an adept to start with bound foci under Priority. Point-buy made it possible, IIRC, but since weapon foci had such a huge bonding cost, it wasn't always feasable. So, we can have skill 6, Imp. ability 6, and spec for 2 more, bringing us to 14. Enhanced articulation brings up up to 15. Which is still really good, but it's still not 27(30) without combat pool. |
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Sep 30 2014, 02:33 AM
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#246
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
The highest I can get, assuming a mystic adept using points rather than Priority, is 32 dice, including Combat Pool. Have a specialized skill, giving you 5 in the main skill and 7 in the specialization. Combat pool of 7 or better, capped at 7 for the specialization rating (improved ability in SR3 only gave dice bonuses, and did not count as a skill increase). Improved ability at 5, capped by the main skill (and your Magic rating, since the two augmentations lower your Magic to 5). A reflex recorder and enhanced articulation for another +2. A force: 6 bonded weapon focus such as a katar for another 6 dice. Finally, the ambidexterity/two-weapon fighting style let you add half skill, rounded down (3) and half improved ability, rounded down (2). That's 32 dice. So I'm not sure how someone can get 27(30) before Combat Pool.
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Sep 30 2014, 03:12 AM
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#247
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
QUOTE (Glyph @ Sep 29 2014, 06:33 PM) The highest I can get, assuming a mystic adept using points rather than Priority, is 32 dice, including Combat Pool. Have a specialized skill, giving you 5 in the main skill and 7 in the specialization. Combat pool of 7 or better, capped at 7 for the specialization rating (improved ability in SR3 only gave dice bonuses, and did not count as a skill increase). Improved ability at 5, capped by the main skill (and your Magic rating, since the two augmentations lower your Magic to 5). A reflex recorder and enhanced articulation for another +2. A force: 6 bonded weapon focus such as a katar for another 6 dice. Finally, the ambidexterity/two-weapon fighting style let you add half skill, rounded down (3) and half improved ability, rounded down (2). That's 32 dice. So I'm not sure how someone can get 27(30) before Combat Pool. I'm not even sure that's feasable. It would cost 640,000 nuyen and 18 karma to have a rating 6 weapon focus at chargen. Technically it's possible under SR3 BP, but it'd cost a pretty penny. |
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Sep 30 2014, 03:27 AM
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#248
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
Yeah, it would require the equivalent of A resources, which is why I said you could only do it with points, not Priority. And magician's way adepts get something like 6 spell points per level of magical ability - so assuming 2 points of that, you could just barely afford to bond it by buying some more spell points with resources.
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Sep 30 2014, 05:32 AM
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#249
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Mr. Quote-function Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,316 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Germany Member No.: 1,376 |
QUOTE (Cain @ Sep 30 2014, 12:11 AM) Not that I'm doubting you, but how do you manage that? I'll just quote myself from a thread last year (just no spoiler tag): It's an extreme form of min-/maxing. Some aspects of the second dwarf are bound to ignite a serious discussion (one that was lead on this board many times and with no definite answer). For the sake of keeping this thread clean, I will have to ask from anyone who is reading this post to refrain from commenting what he/she might perceive as rule breaking or against SR3's RAW, since all aspects involved have been discussed "to death" on various occasions and I'm absolutley positive that no one would be able to bring up any new arguments that would invalidate the involved interpretations. In particlular anyone looking at the numbers must also carefully read the comments below the "code"-section. CODE Edges: 1. Ambidexterity Lvl. III (6 BP) 2. Aptitude (Clubs) (4 BP) 3. add. attribute point [BOD] (2 BP) 4. add. attribute point [QUI] (2 BP) 5. add. attribute point [INT] (2 BP) --------------------------------------- Sum of BP: 16 BP Flaws: 1. Bad Karma (-5 BP) 2. Cursed Karma (-6 BP) 3. Allergy [citrus fruits] (-4 BP) (uncommon, severe) 4. Cortex Bomb [area effect] (-6 BP) 5. Combat Monster (-1 BP) --------------------------------------- Sum of negative BP: -22 BP MK I: 126 BP - 5 BP Dwarf - 30 BP Adept of the Magician's Way - 48 BP 24 attribute points - 18 BP 18 active skill points - 25 BP 650.000¥ resources ----------------------------- 0 BP Attributes: Name B E R Body: 4 5 6 Strength 4 4 6 Quickness: 4 5 5 Charisma: 3 3 3 Intelligence: 4 5 5 Willpower: 5 5 6 --------------------------- Sums: 24 27 31 Magic: 6 [3] Essence: 6 Reaction: 5 Initiative: 5 + 1W6 Combat Pool: 8 Sorcery Pool: 4 Legend: B = Distributed attribute points from the original 24 attribute points E = B + add. attribute points from Edges R = E + racial modifiers Side note: The values of column "R" are relevant for skill cost calculation Skills ( just active ones): Name Level Cost Arnis de Mano 3 3 BP - close combat maneuver 2 BP - close combat maneuver (clubs) 2 BP Clubs 6 6 BP Sorcery(Spell Defense) 2(4) 3 BP Etiquette [Street] 1(3) 2 BP --------------------------------------- Sum: 18 BP Adept Powers: Name Level Cost Magic Talent (voluntary geased) 3 2.25 PP Improved Ability [Clubs] (vol.geased) 6 2.25 PP Counterstrike (vol.geased) 4 1.5 PP ------------------------------------------------------ Sum: 6 PP Side note: Magic Talent Level 3 provides 18 Spell Points Gear: Name Rating/Force Cost Sai 110¥ Weapon focus (Sai) 6 640.110¥ Rapid Transit Jumpsuit 550¥ Helmet for RTJ 55¥ under arm protectors 275¥ FFBA (full) 2.200¥ Actioneer Longcoat 1.650¥ Lifestyle: Low (5 months) 5.000¥ -------------------------------------------- Sum: 649.950¥ Side note: The weapon focus is bound with the 18 Spell Points coming from Magic Talent Armor Values: Ballistics: 5 Impact (from range): 7 Impact (in melee): 8 Dice pool for character's specialty (using his two Sais) when attacking: Source main hand off hand total Skill Rating 6 3 9 Weapon Focus 6 3 9 Impr. Ability 6 3 9 ---------------------------------------- Sums: 18 9 27 Special case situation: When trying to disarm opponent with melee weaponry with range 0 or 1 Sai 2 1 3 ---------------------------------------- Sums: 20 10 30 Dice Pool when defending: Source main hand off hand total like attack 18 9 27 Counterstrike 4 2 6 ---------------------------------------- Sums: 22 11 33 Special case situation: When trying to disarm opponent with melee weaponry with range 0 or 1 which is allowed even in defense Sai 2 1 3 ---------------------------------------- Sums: 24 12 36 All attacks for specialty have a base target number of 3 MK II: 126 BP - 5 BP Dwarf - 30 BP Adept of the Magician's Way - 40 BP 20 attribute points - 21 BP 21 active skill points - 30 BP 1.000.000¥ resources ----------------------------- 0 BP Attributes: Name B E R N Body: 3 4 5 5 Strength: 4 4 6 6 Quickness: 3 4 4 5 Charisma: 3 3 3 3 Intelligence: 2 3 3 5 Willpower: 5 5 6 6 ------------------------------- Sums: 20 23 27 30 Magic: 5 [4] Essence: 6 Bioindex 1.9 (0.95 affecting magic attribute) Reaction: 5 Initiative: 5 + 1W6 Combat Pool: 8 Sorcery Pool: 5 Task Pool: 1 (intelligence bases tasks only) Legend: B = Distributed attribute points from the original 20 attribute points E = B + add. attribute points from Edges R = E + racial modifiers N = R + Bioware Side note: The values of column "R" are relevant for skill cost calculation, although an argument could be made that Bioware affected attributes are treated as natural and thus would be the basis for calculation. This matter was left out on purpose and it doesn't have effects here anyways. Bioware Implantats: Name Bioindex Cost Enhanced Articulation 0.6 40.000¥ Cerebral Booster II 0.8 110.000¥ Muscle Toner I 0.4 25.000¥ Reflex Recorder (Sai) 0.1 10.000¥ --------------------------------------------- Sums: 1.9 185.000¥ Side note: Magic loss to the overall Magic Attribute as per M&M Errata: 1.9/2= 0,95 = 1 (rounded up) Skills (active one only): Name Level Cost Arnis de Mano 3 3 BP - close combat maneuver 2 BP - close combat maneuver (clubs) 2 BP Clubs 6 6 BP Clubs B/R 1 1 BP Sorcery(Spell Defense) 2(4) 3 BP Stealth(Sneaking) 1(3) 2 BP Etiquette [Street] 1(3) 2 BP --------------------------------------- Sum: 21 BP Adept Powers (Base values): Name Level Cost Magic Talent (voluntary geased) 6 4.5 PP Improved Ability [Clubs] (vol.geased) 4 1.5 PP ------------------------------------------------------ Sum: 6 PP Magic talent 6 equals 36 Spell Points. 12 Spell Points are used for: 1. 3 SP for joinuing a magical circle (the two standard connections are assumed to be part of the circle) 2. 9 SP for initiation in a group with ordeal(oath) Aquired metamagic: Atunement [item] Gained Power Point due to magic increase: Counterstrike (vol.geased) 2 0.75 PP Improved senses (flash compensation) 0.25 PP ------------------------------------------------------- Sum: 1 PP Side note: Due to the MK II's bioware implants he will suffer a magic loss with a value of 1. Since Adepts of the Magician's Way rule wise always must substract magic loss from the Magic Talent power and this particular power is already under effect of a voluntary geas, the character is forced to give up Magic Talent with a combined PP value of 1. Due to the cost reduction of the volunatry geas this leads to him losing 2 levels of this power instead of just one. Thus his overall magic rating drops to 5, while is magic rating for sorcery (and theoretically conjuring) drops to 4 We still have 24 Spell Points for other purposes. Gear: Name Rating/Force Cost Sai 110¥ Weapon focus (Sai) 6 640.110¥ Rapid Transit Jumpsuit 550¥ Helmet for RTJ 55¥ under arm protectors 275¥ FFBA (full) 2.200¥ Actioneer Longcoat 1.650¥ Lifestyle: Low (5 months) 5.000¥ Dikote for Sai(non-focus) 4.000¥ - assumed surfeace of 400cm² Rutheniumpolymer coating for clothes 80.000¥ - 8m² should suffice to cover longcoat, humpsuit, boots, FFBA mask and helmet for a "stumpy" dwarf 12 scanner for Ruthenium "invis" 60.000¥ 20 reservce akku packs 1.000¥ ---------------------------------------------- Sum: 814.950¥ Total expenses for gear and implants: 999950¥ Further info: The weapon focus is bound with 18 of the remaining 24 Spell Points coming from Magic Talent The last 6 Spell Points are used to get attuned to the main hand weapon (the non focus sai). As OR for atunement a value of 6 seems to be adequate when looking at the values for a handcrafted blade (5) and a modern world Katana (7) The weapon focus sai goes into "off-hand" due to two reasons: 1. By RAW the dicoted non focus sai will have a +1 power (as stupid as it sounds), but not an increase of damage level (due to being a club and not a weapon with edges that are used for cutting). 2. The skill increase provided by a weapon focus is rule wise totally unaffected by the hand in which the focus is held. Armor Values: Ballistics: 5 Impact (from range): 7 Impact (in melee): 8 Dice pool for character's specialty (using his two Sais) when attacking: Source main hand off hand total Skill Rating 6 3 9 Weapon Focus 6 3 9 Improv. Abil. 4 2 6 Enhanced Articul. 1 - 1 Reflex Recorder 1 - 1 ---------------------------------------- Sums: 18 8 26 Special case situation: When trying to disarm opponent with melee weaponry with range 0 or 1 Sai 2 1 3 ---------------------------------------- Sums: 20 9 29 Side note: An argument could be made to add the bonus dice from Enhanced Articulation and Reflex Recorder into a single value of 2 thus allowing an additional die for off hand derived of that value. For the sake of simplicity the above described situation uses "worst case" for the character by only taking the lower value. Dice Pool when defending: Source main hand off hand total like attack 18 8 26 Counterstrike 2 1 3 ---------------------------------------- Sums: 20 9 29 Special case situation: When trying to disarm opponent with melee weaponry with range 0 or 1 which is allowed even in defense Sai 2 1 3 ---------------------------------------- Sums: 22 10 32 All attacks for specialty have a base target number of 2 General annotations:
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Sep 30 2014, 05:49 AM
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#250
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
Hm. That's still only 18 dice in most circumstances, going to 24 when defending and disarming. That is a lot, but I still don't see how you get 27 without combat pool, let alone 33 when defending. With combat pool, those numbers look more plausible, but not without it.
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