For the 'zipper lock,' how about picks made of myomeric wire and/or memory metals so they can take the bend and stiffen as necessary, or just be straight like regular picks for more 'regular' locks?

I'd say nanites could pick this lock, heck nanites could just EAT the lock. And as for picks made of memory metals, they'd have to be the exact right thickness for the lock, otherwise they'd catch in the lock. If you look carefully there are what appear to be "gears" and they're just crannies for lock picks to get caught in. Not sure if they're actually gears or if their only purposes is to mess up lock picking attempts.

Also that being said, if your GM uses this lock on you more than once you should argue that if these locks are /that/ common that the lock pickers arsenal would have picks for them. Otherwise how else is the GM meant to justify repetitive use of such an obscure lock?

Anyway this kind of thing is meant to be used for "a lock that cannot be picked", not a "if you'd prepared you could've picked this lock".

And as Umidori said, yeah your pick locks skill doesn't cover weird niche items just like your close combat group doesn't cover mono filament whips. Too weird and nonstandard to be included in the typical skill.

Have you read the description of the "Swiss Army Weapon"? Packed up it's the size of a pencil box, but can 'open up' to something the size of a pole arm. One object, two shapes with disparately different volumes.

Lockpicks made of memory metal that could adjust their thickness as need be isn't that far fetched for Shadowrun. Regardless, I do get the point you're trying to make.

On the flipside that key looks very delicate and flimsy, I'd wager the locking mechanism couldn't be too strong, otherwise the key would wear and break. So it'd probably be fairly easy to just demolish the lock.

This sounds like a case of "Legwork Rulz All" because Using Strange physical locks would work very much like a Distinctive Style for the company and shadowy types knowing that they have 'supposedly' unpickable locks serves as a deterrent.

Legwork should inform you of the existence of weird locks, then cue the team Face to seduce someone with access to the proper key in order to properly identify and High-Rez digital scan the necessary key. Afterword, the team Rigger/Tech Specialist can nano-forge the necessary key.

Working the shadows isn't a Single-Player Game folks it takes a team everyone has a piece of the puzzle.

Well, it cetainly can be, if you are a Magic user and Hacker in one.
Correct Spell or simply a Spirit to put into it and you are in already.

Plus depending on the level of seduction, the team may well have access to said original key while the mark is otherwise 'distracted' to get in and out and have the key tucked back in his pockets before he departs in the morning none the wiser.

Yes. And yes. You should damn well be able to use a laser pistol with the pistols skill. You draw it like a pistol, hold it like a pistol, fire it like a pistol; it's a pistol.




JetBlack's still kicking, mind you.

Another problem is that a lot of people are running around with ultra-HD cameras in their heads, simply handling a key in front of people could allow them to make a copy.

RAW say no. Common sense says yes.

Oops, game is balanced against common sense. Who'd have thunk.

Someone not used to lasers might have some difficulty hitting at first, though. You don't have to lead targets or adjust windage or many of the other things associated with putting bullets downrange.

Kinda like someone defaulting due to not having a particular specific skill, huh?

Oddly enough, someone NOT used to shooting real guns may have a better initial time than someone who is an expert at them. It's easier to start from a blank slate sometimes than having to unlearn old habits.



-k

I'd say this lock shouldn't be impossible to pick with the locksmith skill. See, what's the alternative? Creating an Exotic Skill for one lousy piece of equipment? It's strongly suggested to not do that for even an entire solitary character, as I recall, so for a lock? Really?*

That said, it's going to be much, much harder to crack this using conventional tools and skill. To me, that says higher threshold, extended test, possibly less equipment bonus. A situational positive dice pool modifier could be the ultrawideband radar, as seeing what does what inside this fiddly lock saves a lot of time.

That can be a challenge on the run altogether: The infiltrator saying that she can crack this, but will need about 15 minutes to do that, and there's a guard passing by every other minute... It simply adds a challenge to the run that the team has to mitigate. That's fair play for any GM, I say. Go for it.

*Weapons and combat already get more skills than other sets of expertise, mind you. I think the laser pistol situation doesn't quite compare well to this lock being exotic.

just to be clear: i am speaking from a position of ignorance.

having said that, however, i'm somewhat doubtful that using a pistol frequently calls for adjusting your aim due to wind or long range. unless you are literally a professional target shooter or something, maybe, typically if you're using a pistol it's because you are in close quarters. certainly, the bullet will drop, but most people aren't going to worry about the tiny fraction of an inch that the bullet will drop, and likewise with wind; when you're shooting something 2500 feet away, sure, that's gonna be an issue. but for a target that's 100 feet away? i have my doubts that you'd normally do much adjusting for wind or bullet drop, particularly when you're aiming for something the size of a human torso in the first place. frankly, there isn't enough travel time for a bullet to make much of a difference in leading a target either, unless they're traveling absurdly fast.

now, if the argument was for a laser sniper rifle, that might be different. though even then, my gut tells me that for the kind of shots where you're adjusting for wind and bullet drop, you're going to be taking your time to aim and will likely be able to figure out that you need to aim right at your target instead of leading them.

100 Feet away for a Pistol is a long way. Just so you know. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Even with a rifle at close range, you may need to adjust for windage, depending upon strength of wind. At longer ranges, it is definitely a thing, and bullet drop does occur even at 300-400 Meters (sometimes even closer), depending upon your Zeroed Range preference.

Still, Smartlink should take care of all of that and thus it's all just different ammo . .

That's the point I'm hitting at. At least as the rules stand you can see at character creation that you can't fire a special weapon with a conventional weapon skill. The restriction is spelled out and you have the option to remedy it. Not so with the 'special' mechanical lock. The player is not presented with the following at chargen:


The REAL Locksmith

This skill functions in the same way as normal Locksmith except it is only used in situations where the GM pulls out the 'F___ You players' card and says the lock is too special to pick dispite the fact that you wanted your character to be good at picking locks, breaking into safes etc. Possibly in some kind of kick-ass ex-spy kind of way. Perhaps you invented all those locks that are supposedly anti-runner? Whatever man, just throw this mofo back in your GM's face ...... oh and take 2 off the target number champ..... you deserve it.

So what do you do if you get faced against a combination lock... with 100,000 combinations, oh and it's manual.

You can't really "pick" that. That doesn't mean it's "uncrackable" or that it can't simply be forced or destroyed.

I think the argument that every lock should be "pickable" is silly.

But I agree that players, especially those with lock pick should be given a way to deal with the lock, but not by picking it.

Only 100,000 combinations? The lock I used for my locker in high school had 64,000 possible combinations (40^3), while the safe at the place I work at in the summer has a combination lock with 1,000,000 possible combinations (100^3), and both are over twenty years old.

If the locksmith skill isn't used to pick locks, exactly what is it for?

Any mechanical lock can, by definition, be opened mechanically. If it's not mechanically pickable, then there is a non-mechanical element keeping it closed and that will have to be dealt with. See also maglocks.

But this starts us down the road of reworking the skills system entirely, starting by removing Automatics and folding them into Pistols and Longarms based on how you operate each specific weapon. If an Ares Redline runs off Pistols, why not an Ares Crusader machine pistol? To be fair, I'm actually in favor of reclassing skills in this general manner - I'm just not sure how you'd go about doing it, or I'd have made house rules for it already.

But one thing to remember - there's more involved in the Pistols skill than just aimming. There's also maintenance.

There's a lot to learn about the basic operation of any firearm, from more complicated things like being able to field strip your gun or clear a jam, to simple things like knowing where the safety is and remembering to turn it off. If someone hands you a laser pistol that is ready to fire, you'd be able to shoot a few blasts off no problem, but what if you picked one up without a clue if it was combat ready?

Does the thing have a safety? Where? Is the safety on? What does this colored light mean? Why did it start blinking? What is this other gauge over here indicating? Okay, this looks like a warning or error indicator, but I don't know what the symbol means! Squiggly red lines around a diamond shape? What's this other one that looks kind of like a "Road Narrows" sign on a highway? "OOA"? What the Mungo does that mean?

(Yes. Right side, under the fire mode selection. Yes. The light indicates weapon status based on color. It's blinking to indicate the capacitors are pre-charging. The red line around the diamond indicates the lasing cavity is currently overheated. The other symbol indicates the lens array is Out Of Alignment, which is what the letters stand for as well.)


Yes, I'm aware. By the same token, The Big D could be as well, in some strange form or another. The point is the sheer unlikeliness of the situation, even with JetBlack being quite alive and reasonably well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

~Umi

"Pick" is not the correct word here. "Crack" is. Combination Locks CAN be cracked, as can Physical Key Locks. It is a better word in my opinion. Especially for the silly Locks presented earlier. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Shaped charges open all sorts of doors... and sometimes walls...

True... Love me some Shaped Charges. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

"The public sees him as a knight in shining armor."
"This goes through armor. And goes through the victim... and the wall... and the tree outside..."

~Johnny Dangerously

Yes, every lock can be picked. That is the nature of secure systems; nothing is 100% secure. Sometimes picking it takes far more work than the other methods, but it's always available.

The first lock listed, while unusual, isn't some uncrackable snowflake. It's a tubular lock, and you pick it the same way you pick any tubular lock. I've picked tubular locks with 6 pins, 4 settings per pin, so 4,096 combinations. Do you think it took me infinity time? No, it took me about half an hour on the first try. I'm pretty bad at picking locks, and I was using the wrong tools, but it really didn't take very long. That lock takes longer, but it's not an exponential increase. The way you pick a lock (if you're doing it manually) is you try every pin and see which one sticks. Then you try all the remaining pins and see which one sticks. Then the remaining, and so on, until you crack it. So it's not a question of 6 positions ^ 26 pins, it's a question of 26 + 25 +24 +23 +22 +21 + 20. Longer than 6 + 5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1, but not so much that anyone should be talking about infinity.

Yes, that first lock also uses special tools. My normal pick wouldn't fit in there. But a sewing needle would. The only issue is getting torque. I expect any runner to be able to solve that problem with or without the lockpicking skill. As a GM, my ruling would be lockpicking skill applies (if you have it -- I run SR3, where lockpicking is a specialty skill not listed in the main book), with a penalty for it being freaky.

The second lock is different. The functionality is the same as a conventional lock, but its keyway makes access hard. So this isn't a skill question, but a tool question. Lockpicking skill applies, but you need a tool to be able to reach it. I couldn't tell you off the top of my head what I'd use in my real-life setting (but I've never had a chance to handle that lock either). So that would be a chance for the players to do a little puzzle-solving and invent (or do the footwork prior to acquire) a tool with that degree of fine manipulation, while still being able to make it around curves. Plus some pretty significant penalties for the weird angle/leverage.

These arguments of a lock being unpickable (barring of course combination locks, which aren't pickable, they're crackable (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ) is, I suspect, rooted in ignorance on the functionality of locks. They're pickable. The question is just what sort of tool, and how long it takes.