I don't think we've really had a problem with planning before, we just have too many unknowns right now. I think we actually have the house part down somewhat, or at least two potential options. We just don't really have sufficient detail about the grounds to really make an informed decision about how to get to the house. With the FlySpy running ultrasound in passive, it should be able to pick up motion sensors, possibly marking the general location of them for us. We need to figure out a path in...

I think we go with either A or B, no sense in doing both of them. Personally, I think Jack, Mel, and Snap should go in under Plan B.

My rationale for Mel going in is that she can use the Matrix Spotting rules to more easily pick out the devices we need to shut down or spoof. If we run across an unanticipated camera, it should be a lot easier for Mel to figure out which one it is of the multiple cameras slaved to the host if she is within 100 meters of it, rather than having to hack each individual one until she finds the right one.

My rationale for Snap going in is general combat utility and spirit summoning. Once we get the cases, Snap can always summon up a spirit to use Concealment on itself and whisk the cases away so we don't even have to worry about carrying them back.

One of the problems with taking so long is that we forget things that our characters wouldn't. For instance, none of our planning has accounted for the potential of lots of tiny dogs barking, a fact I only just recalled. I figure Plan B would likely expose us the least to any canine nuisances.

I totally forgot about the dogs. As an owner of dogs I can state that they'll hear us come in no matter what, basically. Shadowrun would be a much more difficult game if every place had a few dogs as security.

I'd like Mel to weigh in: do you feel like you'd be able to better contribute along with the team in AR, or in VR in the van? Let's decide that. Then we can determine who else should go. I agree jack and snap should. Grease can shoot, run drones, use EW and carry stuff. It may make sense to bring him; Mel can hack most stuff; Grease can jam anything else we run into.

DrZ

I think my main concern is that we get in the room and run into a maglock that isn't slaved to the host. Then we're kind of screwed without a decker on hand.

ETA: ...and yeah, the dogs would yap if they're aware of us. My four bark incessantly at me when I get home from work, even though they can see that it is me in the window.

The decker doesn't have the locksmith skill (please learn it at 1 before the next run (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ), so there's basically nothing we can do to go past any maglock off the grid, even if they're electronic in nature (I'm pretty sure that's right, and we might want to double check the rules), nor can we do anything about purely physical locks. If that happens, we'd need to take over the whole house and find the key/force someone to let us through before reinforcements arrive, not a small feat.

And yes, getting to and from the house has always been a big concern... I don't dislike the idea of coming up with some kind of story (possibly backed by some clever hacking beforehand) that explains why a car or van is pulling up to the house. It replaces stealth with: somewhat of an element of surprise, an arrival route, an escape route (more questionable, but at least a vehicle for escape), and a diversion if we want to use it just for that purpose. For instance, Jack and Amy sneak around while Grease keeps some of them occupied at the door and Mel hacks from the vehicle, which is within 100m of anything we need hacked.

@Chrome,

You would need the Locksmith skill if you are trying to bypass a physical lock.

If there is a Maglock that is not connected to the host, Mel could still jack directly into the lock and hack it.

I ran some quick tests off line, and you have the following information:

Your car is currently parked about 800 meters southeast of the house. The wall is approximately 50 meters from your car, and then another 750 meters to the house itself.

I've put a map in the drop box (in the Target Layout folder called Huiquing's Grounds) indicating the route the Fly Spy took, along with positions of the 3 guard teams 1, 2, and 3.

The circular area is the driveway, the box marked A is the garage.

There are 2 asterisks that indicate motion detectors that the Fly Spy was able to detect.

You do not see any unusual activity, so it seems that the Fly Spys were able to do this without setting off any motion detectors themselves or being spotted.

The Fly Spy would return after spotting the motion detector by the eastern side of the house, it covers the mud room door. There doesn't seem to be a way around it, you would need to hack the detector to avoid it picking you up

Locksmith is also used to "hack" maglocks if you aren't a decker. It's required to bust open the casing and use sequencers and stuff like that... but if you have a decker, they can just mess with it like any other device if they can direct connect to the access port. I guess some extremely high security places might have locked access ports that might require the Locksmith skill to access them, but I think that would be a significant exception to the rule.

Absolutely correct - I just meant that if Mel went along, the Locksmith skill isn't necessary for Maglocks.

I think we're on the same page. That's the reason I think it would be a good idea for Mel to come along. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

ETA: Also, idea for Snap. Beast spirit to Pied Piper the dogs to get them to not bark and/or cause a distraction if needed. Not sure how well that would work if the spirit has to manifest, but it's a possibility.

Alright, so looking at the diagram, it looks like we would need to weave past at least one motion detector and two sets of guards to get to the house. We would have to tackle at least one more motion detector, cameras, and probably a maglock to get into the mud room. If we go with Plan B, we should be able to avoid the mud room defenses and only worry about the stuff on the second floor patio. We would still have to contend with the patrolling guards.

Maybe have Snap whistle up a spirit that could use concealment on us. Once we get to the outside wall of the house, she can cast invisibility on Jack. He scales the wall, Mel pops the locks and spoofs the sensors. Jack gets inside the room and gets the targets with Mel's help. Gets back to the patio. Hands the cases off to Snap's spirit, who floats them down to the rest of the team. Jack climbs back down. We make our way back how we came in. Grease provides overwatch the entire time with the two FlySpys.

May want to buy some rope for this if we need to get Snap or Mel up to the second floor patio.

If we decide to drive up, some things to consider:

Our driver likely will require more funds if we get his van shot at.
It would be an easier sell during the day. Showing up outside of business hours would require a pretty significant issue. Perhaps we could cause said issue? Hack the septic tank?
If we go during the day, there are going to be more people around, me security, it'll be harder to sneak, or leave the zone. Etc. Etc. Plus extra security could show up for the day of the auction.

I'm not saying I don't like the plan, just highlighting some potential issues.

My back-up plan was to identify the transport team for the objects and replace said team. We just never show up to the auction after picking up the objects. I am sure Huiquing would send some of his own security along, but we would probably have the jump on them.

I can get behind that plan, though Mel does not have any kind of climbing skills (in case that becomes necessary).

Where does it say that? As far I know the rules have drastically changed from previous editions. Locksmith now covers both mechanical and electronic devices (this is a direct quote for the skill description), and if you go to p. 363, you look at maglock (or keycard reader or whatever, for that matter) and it clearly says that the first step to bypassing a maglock is to open its case, using a locksmith+agi check, but it can instead be smashed or shot up... not very stealthy and it may break the electronics inside, not to mention that it states specifically that there may be an anti-tamper system on a maglock case.

So if the maglock is neither wired nor wirelessly connected to the host, for some reason, electronic or not you pretty much need to have Locksmith to do a halfway decent job. Same for anything not hackable through the network.

Unless I'm missing something?

I'm curious about where it says that there is a port in the maglock case. There's no logical use for it that I can think of. The whole point of a lock is to keep things out, it would be a tad convenient that for literally no reason at all you could just plug into them and hack them without opening the case.

A hacker does the trick only if it can hack the host and also if all the locks are connected to the host.

Btw, I'm not trying to be annoying with this, but we're using 5th ed in part to learn the rules, and my reading of the book has always led me to believe that for B&E, you now need Locksmith, by design, so I'd like to understand what I'm getting wrong, what I missed.

@Chrome:

Page 232:

Devices have a universal data connector, which is the
global standard for connecting devices together for
power and data exchange. If you have a cable, you can
connect to the device directly. Cyberdecks and datajacks
come with a meter of built-in retractable microfilament
data cable, or you can always buy a cable for about
five nuyen per meter (some devices, especially those installed
in buildings, are connected by cables to mitigate
noise). When you use a direct connection, you ignore all
noise modifiers and modifiers due to being on different
grids or the public grid. It’s just you and the device.
Some devices don’t have wireless capability. Usually
this is because the person who bought the device
couldn’t afford one that was less than ten years old, or
because they thought they’d be more secure without
wireless. These devices are called throwbacks. Throwbacks
can’t be accessed by wireless connection, so they
can’t be controlled remotely or get a wireless bonus for
being connected to the Matrix. They still have universal
data connectors, so you can connect to them (and hack
them) by jacking in directly.

Page 233
There are risks to slaving devices. Because of the
tight connections between the devices, if you get a
mark on a slave you also get a mark on the master.
This happens even if the slave was marked through a
direct connection, so be careful about who you give
your slaved devices to. This doesn’t work both ways;
if you fail a Sleaze action against a slaved device, only
the device’s owner gets the mark on you, not the master
too.
There are also wide area networks, or WANs, with
multiple devices slaved to a host. A host can have a
practically unlimited number of devices slaved to it, but
because of the direct connection hack you rarely see
more devices than can be protected physically. If you
are in a host that has a WAN, you are considered directly
connected to all devices in the WAN.

So from that, all devices - it doesn't specify certain ones - all devices have a universal data connector (even throwback devices that cannot connect to the Matrix wirelessly), that you can jack directly into, allowing you to then Hack or Brute Force a Mark on it. The rules on page 359 show what you would have to do to defeat each type of maglock (keypad, swipe card, proximity card, memory string, biometric) assuming you don't have a decker.

Remember that the only device you can use to hack these objects is a deck, and even the cheapest deck runs 50,000 :nuyen - it isn't something that the average person is going to have, and allowing easy diagnostics by technicians and other authorized personnel trumps the worry of a decker physically connecting to it.

That being said, it does mean that these items can't be left unguarded - you still need physical security or redundant layers to protect these devices from a decker walking up and sticking a cable into the device and hacking it directly.

That is the in game reason.

From a purely metagame reason, I believe they do this to encourage players who play deckers to join the group and go in, as opposed to stay back in the van with the rigger.

Also, not that the examples are always great explanations of the mechanics, but the hacking example on p. 224 shows a bank maglock having a universal port, which the hacker uses as an exploit to get to the bank's Host.

Cool I hadn't realized that's how it worked at all. Thanks for the explanations and patience. I continue to find a bit ridiculous that maglocks have universal connectors when they clearly don't need them on the outside (a technician can open the box and jack in there if needed). But we're playing a game, and it doesn't all have to make sense. I'm pretty sure if I ever run an SR5 game it would be a bit different (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Well, in that case, we'll need to be at least 3 at the house. Using our driver and car to drive up the driveway seems too uncertain and risky when I really think about it (at least using a stolen car would be better). Not sure what we can do to get to and away from the house unharmed then. Stealth might not cut it on the way out.

I'm starting to like more and more the idea of running a diversion on the other side of the house while the burglary takes place. Something like faking an assassination attempt or something, maybe with a spirit and a drone (though we are likely to lose both..)? Phantasm and grenades could also work well in that plan. Is there a way to make this work?

Just purchased "Run Faster". I weep for any GMs who have to approve characters going forward. There are so many options....

-DrZ

Alright, so where are we at? Have we come to some form of agreement on a plan? We have a sketched out route that the Fly Spy took, so we have an idea about where random motion detectors in the yard are. Do we want to have the drones try to search out another path? Maybe one to the far side of the house in case we are going to try Plan B?

Thanks Jack (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I don't want to be pushy - but we have slowed significantly, and I want to make sure we keep the game going.

Not only do you need to finalize the plan, but also when you are going to do it, what you will be doing in the meantime.

Can you refresh us on the timelines we are dealing with right now? I recall it was going to take a little bit of time to get the cases.

I think we should also look to get:
- Smoke Grenades
- Rope
- Autopicker (I recall we decided not to purchase one of these with group funds at the end of the last run since we decided against establishing a team fund. Do we want to see if we can get our hands on one now? We may not need it, but then again, we may.

Ok - so:

Jack made contact with Tara at 9:45, and requested the Mapsoft and Linguasoft. Based on the die rolls, the Mapsoft should be there around 11:45, while the Linguasoft wont be there until 3:45.

Grease then met with Stone around 10:30, and the rolls put the cases arriving at 3:30

So, our time line is as follows:

11:45 - Mapsoft arrives at O'Roarkes
12:00 - Grease finishes gaining the information from the locals
3:30 - the cases arrive at O'Roarkes
3:45 - the Linguasoft arrives at O'Roarkes

ETA - you could of course negotiate trying to find the other gear as well. Rope is legal, but none of you can just walk into a store and purchase it, I would make it the same as the cases, an availability of 1.

It's not impossible for Amy to find a quiet room to rent somewhere, and take the time to bind a spirit. F4 would take 4 hours. That could turn out to be pretty useful, having access to a second spirit.

As for the plan, we still have got no consensus on how to get to the house and away from the house.

We might want to designate a tactical leader for the run like we did before. Some situations call for executive decisions to be made quickly and not questioned.

I think designating a leader is a good idea. I have reservations about Mel trying to climb a rope, but she'll agree to go in if requested.

What about a distraction at the second end of the run? In other words, have the distraction go off AFTER we have the items, and need to get out.