During the five-ish in-game years covered by 4th Edition, the Decker lost their cyberdeck and used the same gear as the rest of their group, albeit with more skill. And somebody decided since they didn't have any specialized gear any more, might as well just call them "hackers". Two words:

Bull drek.

Having an idle several moments of my convalescence during which I was marginally functional, I decided to gin up stats on SR4.x 'decks. Why use a 'deck that costs between 20 and 100 times as much as a comlink? Simple: the Kerenshara Cyberdeck™ has all the features of a comlink plus a hot-sim module... and runs SYSTEM x2 programs. That puts it squarely between the comlink (x1) and the nexus (x3). That means a person with a deck can boost their stats with software more thoroughly.

Here's some stats for you:




Cyberdeck Model --- Response --- Signal --- Cost --- Availability
Erika MCD-1 --- 3 --- 4 --- 49,500¥ --- 3R
Microdeck Summit --- 4 --- 3 --- 58,000¥ --- 3R
Microtrónica Azteca 200 --- 5 --- 3 --- 110,250¥ --- 6R
Hermes Chariot --- 5 --- 3 --- 123,000¥ --- 6R
Novatech Navigator --- 6 --- 3 --- 205,750¥ --- 9R
Renraku Tsurugi --- 6 --- 4 --- 214,125¥ --- 9R
Sony CIY-720 --- 7 --- 3 --- 345,000¥ --- 12R
Shiawase Cyber-5 --- 8 --- 3 --- 549,375¥ --- 15R
Fairlight Excalibur --- 9 --- 5 --- 823,250¥ --- 18R




So it's like a 'link except with the VR module included and enabled for hot-sim and able to run twice the software without slowing down, making it larger and faster (and much more pricey) than a 'link but much more portable and less powerful than a nexus.

Anybody like?

S// Kerenshara

While I agree whole-heartedly with you on the subject of Deckers and 4th, I kind of feel like it's rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. The switch from a cyber-reality separate to our own to an overlay ala astral space, the UMS, the adoption of wireless everywhere, and more than I want to get started on. I'd say you'd be better off streamlining 3rd ed matrix rules than trying to add them in wholesale to 4th.

You misunderstand my purpose. I've had 4th Ed since 1st printing and while I was annoyed at the lost of the dedicated Matrix hardware, I shrugged since it seemed a fait accompli. What got me was that 'decks came BACK in 5th Edition, so what I was actually doing was porting 5th Ed's 'decks back into 4th.

As to streamlining the 4th Ed Matrix rules... I just (finally) finished my firearm homebrew. I need a place to post a couple PDFs. I guess maybe I'll turn my attention to the 4th Ed Matrix since I've concluded that I can't get behind the 5th Ed mechanics whatsoever. I felt 4th Ed was better in the Matrix department than 3rd but I'll take a fresh look at both since I have them.

It's always something. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

S// Kerenshara

I'd bring all those prices down about an order of magnitude just to keep them in line with the economy of SR4. Unrealistic prices and unbelievable economies are one of the hallmarks of any edition of Shadowrun that isn't SR4. With the suggested run payouts and the prices of comparable equipment in relation to those, they don't work very well.

It's really crap. Quite frankly, I'd rather use that kind of money to buy a higher-rated commlink so I can run milspec programs which can just batter through the opposition.

You can also buy Optimized programs which don't count against your commlink's System rating at all. So between that option and using my nuyen to buy a better link rather than a fatass link that can run twice as many programs and that's it, I'm going to have to go with the first option.

After all, once the important passive programs are in memory I can only run one program per pass anyway.

Except that all the other gear (guns and armor and such) are the same price range they always have been. An order of magnitude makes them only slightly more expensive than a good 'link.

I'd be interested in a workable middle ground. Frankly, I saw the cost as parallel to the creation cost of a street sammy - whose price can be very high very quickly. But I did kind of blanch at some of the higher level prices. Maybe I need to go back and look at 3rd Ed for a more workable price point?

S// Kerenshara

So assuming the price came down to some extent, which I agree with to a point - if you look all I did was snag the costs and availability from SR5 and extrapolated the possible 4th Ed stats from what came before and after. The program limit seemed a simple way to make them more attractive, but you're both right about the price being too high. Like I said: I'd be interested in a counter-idea because I'm not prepared to abandon the idea outright.

As to ergonomic programs vis-a-vis the processor limit, the availability becomes an issue for a starting 'Decker pretty quickly as I recall from the last time I rolled one up. Do you have another way to giver the (cheaper) cyberdecks a meaningful advantage over a comlink without adding a new layer of rules? I'd love to hear it because while I can whistle the tune, 'decking's always been a lesser interest of mine (only ahead of rigging).

S// Kerenshara

You should also look at the 2050 book, I'm not fond of the fact that memory was back but it's another 4e has cyberdecks book

Took me a second to place the reference, but I've got the book. I'll take a peek. Thanks!

S// Kerenshara


[EDIT] The intro prices are lower but the high end is worse. And the stats aren't in line with the rest of 4th Ed. I think it will be adjusting the curve down but it's a start.

I think what you're trying to do is, quite frankly, invent something for which there is no call.

If I had to choose between a Rating 3 "Deck" that can run six R3 programs and a Rating 4 'Link that can run four R4 programs, I'm going to choose the 'Link, because I want that extra die for the rolls I do make than I want two extra programs.

And don't forget about the Ergonomic program option for ¥300 per program, which will let you effectively double your running programs before Response takes a hit, if you really need to be running that many programs to begin with.

And then there's also the software suites, where you can have two or more programs running for the cost of one.

Besides, it might be harder to get, even at nearly a quarter million nuyen (accounting for +10 dice for the Availability test), but a Transys Cybernaut is Response 9, Signal 8, and comes with a biometric lock, armored case 5, & hardening 5 as integrated options. With ergonomic programs you're still running the same number of programs as the Fairlight Excalibur and you're signal range is increased by a factor of 25.

Yep. Once you get above Rating 4 or so, having extra programs running at once is much less important - especially at these kinds of prices - than is having programs which run at your maximum rating.

And really, if you're trying to hack with Rating 3 software and system, you're not trying to hack, you're trying to get the script kiddie cops to come ream out your datajack.