Apparently Shadows of North America has places that don't have bounties on them. It is also at least 10 years old in setting, so that might have changed.
I found it weird the thread mentioned a specif love by the Yakuza for fox people, which seems weird with the Yakuza massive amount of racism and human superiority, I wouldn't think selling actual foxes to people would be in their interest.

Yeah, the only reference I can find in anything recent, someone brought up in that thread. Qubec apparently has a bounty on all sorts of paracritters, sentient or not, but that's the only thing I can find and is from early 4th edition.

http://shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Harmful_Paranimals_Act

sorry to tell you, but you're wrong. What actually happened was




I couldn't help laughing at the whiny "Please respect the lore" and the obvious consternation about people who dare to "disrespect the setting and the game". It's like putting a cat in front of a mirror, you can see them trying to cope with something their brains just can't parse (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

PS: Of course, the guy in question asked fro help building his first character a year ago. The late converts make the worst zealots...

Like I said, I call them The Cult of the Holy Rulebook for a reason.

Amazing how metaphors of religious fanaticism fit this topic, huh? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I gotta say that "snowflakes" bug me, because my characters usually end up carrying them. Sometimes literally. In my experience, snowflakes are usually very good at one thing, and a liability at many others.

---THAT SAID---

That table had a way of playing Shadowrun that worked for them. A new player does not get to dictate tone and setting to the table.

It is one of the GMs jobs to head this kind of thing off immediately. The instant the new player PM'd "I betray the team!" to the GM, he should have immediately PM'd back "We don't do that at this table. Lets talk more about this later."

There goes any possibilty of me visiting /tg/ in the near future.
What an asshat this GM is. Those are still YOUR players even if you don't like their playstyle. From what it sounds like he was doing a pretty good job as the GM up until this point. People where having fun even if they sound like the crew from Fairy Tail, to the GM's credit Fairy Tail fragging SUCKS, and you allowed them to die. And even if we are using the rolls rule over everything excuse he did NOT need to be such an utter dick about it. And I personally think he is the biggest loser of them all here. You have a party of players you don't like and yet keep coming back to them? Who is the loser here? At least none of these guys sounded Sasuke Uchia edgy level. I have stories about guys like those for days and I assure you this team could have been a lot worse. Further EVEN if they suck from a gameplay perspective shouldnt it be your job to go out of your way to educate them to maybe invest some karma? Sucky GM. The way he describes the setting makes me question whether or not HE is the edgy one in all this.

I'd suggest that you re-read the whole reddit thread because the GM in question certainly had his short comings but being an asshat and not liking the play style of his players was not among them - despite whatever the alleged "friend" who posted the story is trying to tell you.

If anything that GM was (and still is) inexperienced both in terms of dealing with an online role playing game environment of that type as well as with Shadowrun as the played system ... and the FNG-player (simply) abused that lack of experience to the point where he ruined a game session for the others and then directly or indirectly took it further for cheap laughs in that Reddit thread.



And this highly negative judgement of personality - which ironically bears some heavy resemblance to the judgemental antics behind the posting on Reddit and some of the reasoning that was provided for as to why that behavior (and how things went down in the game) is "ok" for some - is mainly the result of your lack of reading comprehension. I once again urge you to re-read the whole Reddit thread ... with particular attention to what the player of the fox shifter had to say about the incident, the truthfulness of the OP's portrayal of events and the relations with the GM in question.

I guess I see your point. I had something of an evil DM once and I can be kinda jumpy on these points. Was a little immature there. I still believe that their was more this gm could have done here though.

There are many things he could - and some will say should - have done. But quite obviously those things didn't happen and that largely because he technically wasn't up to the task of being the GM for that particular situation.

Chances are that we'll never find out what lessons he - as well as the other players - took from the experience except for being told by the fox shifter's player that the next time he should consult with him should another player make a similar move ... and that's actually something that I find just as disturbing as some of the comments in that Reddit thread about the rightfulness of FNG's actions or how that group is "raping" the setting with their "special snowflake attitude".

Following on that we see Changelings continue to be of special interest to the research facilities one way or the other...

Didn't you know? Games are srs bsns. Can't have "noobs and casuals" playing your game all badwrong.

Honestly, while as a player I might see that as disruptive, frankly as the FNG to a new group as a character, he pretty much nails it and the party. How no one has scooped up the fox character off the street yet and sold her off is beyond me. Bad plans, bad planning, no recon and expecting a guy you JUST got off the street to buy in immediately is a bit much.

Tabletop games do not occur in a vacuum, they involve actual other human beings. And as LurkerOutThere noted, "FNG took steps that no reasonable person should really take and expect the game not to essentially stop."

It doesn't matter how "perfectly in character" FNG was, he knew full and well that his actions were going to completely destroy the game, he just didn't care. That's called being a dick, and it doesn't matter how "perfectly in character" his actions were to try to excuse it. Feeble attempts at justification aside, he's a griefer - straight up, plain and simple. We'd have shown him the door, as would most groups, I believe.

That's sort of a meta issue. The real reason the game is occurring is because some people decided to play a game. So the people have to cooperate to some extent in order for there to be a game.

It's sort of like, why would a bunch of runners accept the low pay that is in many printed modules instead of simply stealing and fencing cars? Because on a meta-level there's the understanding the players got together to have fun with mercenary corporate espionage missions, instead of repetitive car thefts.

Or, if you're playing Dungeons and Dragons, why doesn't the thief character backstab the other player characters after a boss fight when everyone is weak and take all the loot for himself? Because there's an unspoken agreement that the people at the table want to focus on adventuring and storylines, rather than having to worry about a TPK generated by a player so that the player can write down lots of gold and loot on his character sheet just before the campaign is forced to stop due to everyone being dead. Most people wouldn't want to defeat the boss but have the story end there anyway because the thief killed everyone. They would rather continue with the campaign and see more of the story.

It's sort of like, "I could backstab everyone and take their stuff, but then the universe would end."

In some cases they do(backstab the player). But thats another game(and another story one could tell). Sometimes that "unspoken agreement" really does need to be spoken and discussed. Because one person's idea and another in the same game may not mesh.

But everyone that I've seen in this thread is complaining about the FNG and his moves, but frankly they were well thought out and made sense. To me the sole blame here lies at the DM's feet. Nothing the FNG did or could do or plan could happen without his consent.

Frankly I disagree a bit with alot of that(not that his moves werent dick moves, but I digress). The reason I say that is the blame, frankly, falls solely on the DM. At any point the DM could have stopped it, took him aside and said "thats not the type of game were playing". But that didnt happen even once.



And Unless you have more evidence, I'd say you werent conrrect in he's a griefer. I think his idea of the game and the rest of the party have very DIFFERENT views on how the game is played- its like when i played warhammer 40k- there were painters vs fluff guys vs minmaxers (among others). No one's method of playing is wrong, its just when you mix the two it goes bad fast. Same here.

It does not fall solely on the GM. This dick was being a dick, and he bears responsibility for his own actions. That said, yes, the GM should have kicked him out posthaste.



I read the Reddit thread. He was a griefer, plain and simple. He knew that his actions would destroy the game and did it anyway.

No, "don't blatantly and knowingly destroy the game" doesn't need to be discussed. Any gamers who can't comprehend this very simple concept have no business at a gaming table. Period. If you're the new person and you find that your idea of the game doesn't match the group's, then you leave, and you don't crap all over their game on your way out the door.



They were not-so-well-thought-out griefer moves. Had I been the GM, the contacts he turned over all that "hot merchandise" to would have geeked him and walked off with the merchandise, all of his stuff as well, and then dropped his body off at the nearest Tamanous chop shop for extra nuyen. He may think he's a devious mastermind, but he's just a stupid punk, as I would have brutally demonstrated to him.

Actually, it does. Your blind anger here doesnt do you any good. Its the DM's DAMN JOB TO MAKE SURE PLAYERS ARE RUNNING ON THE SAME PAGE, Its a simple concept you dont seem to understand. Its a conversation you have BEFORE you show up to the table. The FNG and the other players are playing two evry different games. It wasnt going to end well. But the blame, most of it, likes at the DM's feet. NOTHING in game happens without his consent.




You keep saying that without any other evidence of such. You dont know, and frankly CANNOT prove, he consistantly does or is a griefer. he played the part he had. I dont blame him. I blame the DM. Again, you keep saying these thinjgs but the blame lies eslewhere.

And yes I agree, he SHOULD have been geeked as soon as he turned them over instead of getting paid. He went with no backup. He shouldnt have gotten paid. In that I agree with you.

You are flat out wrong. NOTHING in game happens without the DM's consent. EVER.



I did too, disagree.

The fact that the GM is running the game does not absolve every player there of any and all responsibility for their own actions. I don't even know why I'm having to explain this.

This isn’t anywhere close to blind anger. Yes, the GM wasn’t on the ball, but from the thread it seems he’s new to the job; this was probably a very pointed lesson for him. The FNG is the new guy, and as such he’s the who should have asked some questions upon joining. Their gaming group existed before this Johnny-Come-Lately strolled in the door, and it’s not their responsibility to change their group just to accommodate this new guy (who just wants to trash their game to get his jollies). I repeat, if you’re joining a new group, it’s not their job to completely change everything around just to accommodate you.

Again, the presence of the GM at the table does not automatically and completely absolve each and every single player there of all responsibility for their own actions. If it does, then why does anyone bother to show up? The GM can just hold the game all by himself and send everyone an e-mail later letting them know what “they” did last night at the gaming table. No responsibility at all = no presence needed.



This is the very definition of a griefer. If you can’t see that, I don’t know what to tell you. Given the account as presented on Reddit, there’s no way this guy didn’t know full and well that his actions were going to torpedo the game and ruin everyone’s evening. But he still went ahead and did it. That is being a griefer.

I mean, we were just going over how there was limited supporting evidence for bounties on shapeshifters, and even then none for six figures ones. They are playing SR4A, which means shapeshifters have regen, which means giving them implants doesn't work right either, meaning the Yakuza aint gonna want them for their sex doll shop. More surprised she hasn't been prosecuted for walking around doing magic stuff without a license.