It's probably easiest to just go with using the PAN instead of the matrix. Or lower the internal router cost by about .7 essence and 15k nuyen.

That. After all, a great deal of the essence cost is the cost of wiring this shit up to your central nervous system. An internal PAN is one of those things that should just be assumed for any cybered character - their cyber is wired properly to themselves and to each other.

honestly, a nuyen cost sounds perfectly reasonable (not necessarily 15 THOUSAND nuyen on top of the already high cost of many implants in the first place, but some cost at least). essence cost doesn't make much sense though. the devices can already connect to each other... you're just changing them to have a wire instead of using wifi. there's nothing about the router's functionality that justifies a huge essence hit (again, the router is pretty much already there... the main difference is that you need a port for the wire, which honestly is probably also already there since it's standard issue on every other damn thing in the world for no apparent reason, so at this point they're saying that having a cable run through the inside of your body is a massive essence cost for some reason).

The real pisser is that exactly the connection you're talking about has been industry standard for decades in-universe, but apparently became lost and terrible technology sometime between 2072 (20A) and 2075 (SR5).

well yeah. you can't have a cable connecting stuff without scary, evil, dangerous nanobots that might erase your mind from existence and replace it with someone (or something) else's. that's just common knowledge. because that totally makes sense, and is definitely something new and refreshing and not completely overdone that fans felt was missing from the setting... not enough bodysnatchers, that was definitely a problem that needed solving. [/sarcasm]

Depending on what the system is use for, why would one even need a wire inside the body, where it would be a bit harder to service if need be? Why not just go with the wire running from, say, your temple and plugging directly into a carried or worn object? To avoid getting tangled up on things, you could even tape the wire to your skin so there would be no snags, and it could still be running down the outside of your body.

You mean like an oldschool smartgun plugged into a datajack?

Nah, it'd never work.

The issue is you're looking at what can be done that you don't want. Most people look at what can be done that they do want. A smart thermostat would be brilliant. My electric company can remotely optimize so I get the same experience, but a lower bill. I can check on it while I'm on travel to make sure my cats are comfortable, but not spending too much. If I'm paying an extra $100 for automation, I'm probably saving $500 a year. Could someone hack it? Sure. In that case, I tear it out, throw it in the trash, and buy a new one for $150. It's not exactly a deal-breaker. Same with the fridge; worst case (assuming they don't leverage it to attack my home network) is I'm out the value of the contents inside the fridge--a value easily made up by the anticipated food savings, and covered by insurance.

It's easy to say you wouldn't do it for things your life depend on, like cars. But again, it all depends on the trade-off. Sure, someone MIGHT hack my car and make me crash. But the odds of that are about as high as someone pushing rocks off of overpasses. Meanwhile, an autonomous car means I absolutely CAN get out of driving my kids to school every day (saving me 90 minutes every day), that I can go to NYC to help my sister move without having to drive all the way back to get the car, that I never have to worry about finding parking, that I don't need to buy a second car for my wife, etc. The benefits are significant, measurable, and largely guaranteed. The risks (not counting cost) are serious, but the likelihood is tiny.

Shadowrunners are the exception. But most of us aren't shadowrunners (and neither are the corporations they target).

The problem with replacing it, is most of them would be made by one or two corporations, and would all have the same weakness. You'd spend another $150 and a few days to get a new one and replace it (then set it up with the utility again), and someone would spend 30 seconds re-applying the same hack to the new equipment.

And, as you pointed out, just messing with the temperature is unlikely to be the main goal. It's just a weak link to get to the rest of the network.

again, one of my main problems is this silly idea that just because most people for most products will have reasons to want wifi (and i certainly can accept that; for most people, they're not likely to get hacked because nobody cares enough to hack you, just like for the most part nobody is going to smash in your windows and steal your furniture or anything like that), no products will have reasons to not want wifi.

stuff made for the general public? sure it should be wifi, provided there's a valid reason (and for almost anything, having an RFID makes finding lost stuff a lot easier, so if nothing else RFIDs being super common makes a lot of sense). but stuff where the *primary* customer is the sort of person that specifically wants no wifi is just silly. i mean, cybereyes having wifi: makes sense. they're relatively common amongst the general populace, wifi means you can use them to view the matrix and AR stuff and you can take pictures or video with them then upload that to something else, etc. wireless reflexes? the only people that should be using these are people that expect to need overwhelming force packed into small numbers of people, and there is a huge correlation with need for stealth there.

That's an interesting point and has certainly given me something to think about this morning. I don't have pets and one of the reasons I don't want them is the feeling I would never be able to leave the house for days at a time, but you make the point that something like a smart thermostat, in conjunction with perhaps a few other remote technologies, would enable a pet owner to take long trips away.

In terms of the general public, though, it seems like people do get obsessed with catastrophic low probability events (i.e. fear of flying, fear of civilian-owned military pattern rifles, when cheeseburgers kill more than both), so I feel like all it would take would be one high profile vehicle hacking accident to sour people on, for example, driverless cars controlled wirelessly.

I've lived part of my life in extremely rural settings, so for me, one of my big concerns is always going to be an item's longevity. Can the item be serviced without needing highly specialized skills, tools, or parts? How long can the item go without being serviced? How does the item tolerate power outages and/or power surges? To what extent does the item use extremely common parts that can be found anywhere, as opposed to using specific parts that must be obtained from the original manufacturer? I feel like something that can be jerry rigged and kept going for years is inherently more desirable than something that implements features that were historically unnecessary, and that is a bit more fragile or hard to service as a result. I guess that I feel like a lot of market items today are frivolous traps designed to trap you in a parts and service relationship with the original manufacturer. That is to say, I don't need a smart fridge (as stated before, I could conceivably make due with an ice box, so long as ice is available in grocery stores), but the smart fridge exists and is marketed in such a way to entice me by frills that I don't need. If I give in to the temptation of the frills, I am snared by the manufacturer, upon whom I am now dependent for service and parts. Instead of my money going to support my journey of life and the things that upon consideration would be most important, a certain amount is now being siphoned off to this third party for non-essential services, as they had been planning all along.

Lots of people dream about owning a muscle car, or giant powerful truck. One dream I have is that someday I'll own an old, used, but reliable pickup from the 90s with manual transmission, with minimal electronic systems and use of computers that I can keep running forever relatively easily, which would be versatile enough to be of use in a wide variety of life situations.

Yeah, that's one of my main bones of contention here. 90% of the gear in the books is guns, armor, and cyberware whose legitimate users are heavy security forces and military. Neither of which should want anything to do with their gear talking to the wider Matrix, because it is a huge operational security hole in a setting where some Barrens kid with a knock-off deck can start turning off their guns.

Then, the problem is less with the existence of the wifi than with the game giving substantial mechanical benefits to the use of the wifi. The idea that budget rent-a-cop firm A might have some stupid wifi on a gun thanks to a dumb lawsuit a decade in the past is reasonable. The idea that a group that seriously uses guns for important things might be tempted to use it because it makes them that much better is more of a stretch.

In-game having idiots vulnerable and others no is no more bothersome than the general idea of cyber/magic/whatever dominating mundanes. In SR there are mooks. It's just that the designers used that idea to shoehorn in the idea of hackers as mages. And with that idea in place, it becomes more of a problem when the usefulness of one character can change so dramatically depending on opposition - and not just type of opposition, but competence of opposition. So, you can be completely invaluable vs a group of mall security guards, and then absolutely worthless against corp guards - any and all corp guards.

Silly, but also reasonable. RFID prices are hitting rock-bottom. If I'm choosing between a book for $1 and an RFID-enabled book that also tells the time for $1, why not? Next thing you know, everyone is putting RFID (or wi-fi) on, even if they haven't found a use for it yet. Next thing you know, you're doing extra work to get stuff that ISN'T enabled, and at some point, as the user, I don't care enough to avoid it.

(This doesn't address equipment with non-wireless markets, like guns to military.)




As someone who has kept his washing machine alive for fifteen years, I totally understand that. But that's planned obsolescence for you. The poor don't have the money to buy out of it, and the rich like their regular upgrades anyway. In the U.S., what you describe is basically a hobby like camping or survival prepping.

Interesting point. I wonder if there'd be room in the world for some kind of nonprofit or experimental project that would manufacture pre-computer age appliances which would be easy to keep running and sell them at low cost to poor people.

They'd be wiped out in an instant by corporate interests. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Almost certainly. But I wish someone would do it; I'd buy (I'm not poor either, I just like to have stuff that lasts longer than nine months).

A lot of the older stuff is still manufactured, and thanks to the Internet you can actually find the companies.

For washers and dryers specifically, Speed Queen still makes their absurdly heavy-duty and durable machines with full analog controls, and they're competitively priced as well!

A smart thermostat is nothing but an IC, an actuator, and a power supply for both. Maybe an LCD display on top of it. All of which are certainly easier to acquire than a matching reverse gear for a specific gearbox which hasn't been produced for two decades (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35311447

Someone in France is working on a washing machine that's meant to last for 50 years. He's currently working on the prototype and expects to have a kickstarter next year.

Are you finding that those Earth Elemental dirt stains seem harder to get out than the usual grime?

Is house breaking the Hellhound leaving a permanent brimstone & ammonia smell to your home?

Does the splatter from that Blood Spirit you smoked atop the Azzie pyramid last month look just as fresh on your best armor jacket as the day you got hit by it?

What you are experiencing are elements that are ITRW or Immune To Regular Washing.

OxiClean3000® was developed using cutting edge talismongery to produce our newly patented line of mana-reactive Detereagents™ to help cut through the toughest awakened/extraplanar mess.

Available at Kong-Mart and other fine retailers.

Well, you can get a 50 years old washing machine right now and connect it to an electricity meter to test how much of a good idea that is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

My last washer/dryer (which I just replaced last year) lasted just over 20 years.
Wish all my appliances were that robust.