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Koekepan
post Nov 14 2019, 10:34 PM
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QUOTE (pbangarth @ Nov 14 2019, 05:25 PM) *
Oh, yeah. In the campaign for which I created him (but which never got off the ground) there were stricter limits than the book. I'll fix that when I take a karmagen look at him. One challenge for me will be to play a character who doesn't come up with the ideas all the time. It's tough to shut off my idea engine. Or my mouth. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

And if I don't need Restricted Gear, I have more points! Min-max Min-max Min-max Min-max Min-max Min-max!

Hey! I was the 5000th member to join after Thanee!



MiniMax, the shortest troll in town, clocks in at six feet tall and six feet broad.
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Thanee
post Nov 15 2019, 11:38 AM
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Street Name: Selina
Name: Skye McGregor
Archetype: Street Shaman
Metatype: Elf
Gender: female
Age: 24
Height: 1.68m (5 ft. 6 in.)
Weight: 54kg (120 lbs.)
Hair: blonde
Eyes: green
Skin: fair

Character Generation:
[ Spoiler ]

Appearance:
[ Spoiler ]

Background:
[ Spoiler ]

20 Questions:
[ Spoiler ]
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Mulcarn
post Nov 16 2019, 04:49 AM
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Alright looks good. Job well done. You managed to create a decently high force ally spirit without crippling your character in the process. Think I'll start the Campaign on December 1st, or somewhere close to then. So that gives you guys a little over two weeks to prepare or tweak things as needed.
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pbangarth
post Nov 16 2019, 05:48 AM
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OK, here's Quick Willie in Karmagen format. Things changed a bit, but his Willieness still shines through. I lusted for a moment over nanoware, especially anti-rad, considering where we are going, but that wouldn't be Willie till after his Cerebral Booster, (and he has NO skills that need Logic ... yet), and I didn't want to metagame that much.

Speaking of which, Mulcarn, I assume players should stay away from your new thread entitled "Spirits and Magical Threats".

[ Spoiler ]



EDIT: QW with the corrected karma costs is in post #68.
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Mulcarn
post Nov 16 2019, 05:56 AM
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Hehe, maybe. I poured over some older editions and combed through some of the novels to get the answer I was looking for more or less. They can read it if they want to, it won't spoil or ruin anything since the nature of most magical threats is rather nebulous and is left to the GM to determine. Mechanically speaking, Street Magic gives GMs a bunch of useful tools and templates to tweak big bad major mojo slingers as preferred.
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pbangarth
post Nov 16 2019, 05:58 AM
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Willie will be very happy to have his magical buddies help protect him from nasty mojo. He'll stand in the way of bullets all day long, but that brain-frying shit? yuck.
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Mulcarn
post Nov 16 2019, 06:13 AM
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One of the more frightening aspects of Dark Spirits/Awakened is that it takes an already powerful archetype and essentially cranks it up to 11. Take that prospect and add in the fact that they are a lot more proliferate than I had originally thought.


The world of Shadowrun consists of roughly 6 billion people. 1% of that number are Awakened in some fashion or another, which is 60 million. And of that number roughly 1% are Twisted/Toxic/Tainted in one aspect or another, which is 600,000.
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pbangarth
post Nov 16 2019, 07:13 AM
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I don't think Willie can carry that many bullets.
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Thanee
post Nov 16 2019, 08:01 AM
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QUOTE (Mulcarn @ Nov 16 2019, 07:13 AM) *
The world of Shadowrun consists of roughly 6 billion people. 1% of that number are Awakened in some fashion or another, which is 60 million. And of that number roughly 1% are Twisted/Toxic/Tainted in one aspect or another, which is 600,000.


And they ALL live in Seattle! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)


Okay, maybe not...

Bye
Thanee
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Thanee
post Nov 16 2019, 08:03 AM
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QUOTE (Mulcarn @ Nov 16 2019, 05:49 AM) *
Alright looks good. Job well done. You managed to create a decently high force ally spirit without crippling your character in the process.


Yeah, that wasn't easy. I think, she came out pretty well-rounded. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I did lower the attributes a bit farther down than I wanted, but you have to save those points somewhere...


Speaking of which... are the Forms okay? Especially the vehicle-forms: "motorcycle" (which, I guess, is fine) and "roadster" (was thinking something of the size of an MX-5 here; not sure whether that is too much)?


So, start in two weeks, then? Cool! That should give me enough time to get her background written up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bye
Thanee
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Koekepan
post Nov 16 2019, 06:23 PM
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QUOTE (Mulcarn @ Nov 16 2019, 08:13 AM) *
One of the more frightening aspects of Dark Spirits/Awakened is that it takes an already powerful archetype and essentially cranks it up to 11. Take that prospect and add in the fact that they are a lot more proliferate than I had originally thought.


The world of Shadowrun consists of roughly 6 billion people. 1% of that number are Awakened in some fashion or another, which is 60 million. And of that number roughly 1% are Twisted/Toxic/Tainted in one aspect or another, which is 600,000.


Interesting point.

So let's see. Just taking population proportions from today, that would peg the greater Seattle conurbation at roughly 3 million (meta)human souls. However, given concentration as a result of the upheavals in the region, we could bump that up to maybe 4 million (honestly, a lot of the region is pretty thinly populated anyway).

One percent of that, including everybody down to the barista who can talk to the spirit of soykaf and nothing else, is 40,000. Of those, a much smaller proportion would be full mages. At a wild guess (Mulcarn's campaign depending, of course) there are 1,000 or fewer full magicians in Seattle, with many of the remaining 39,000 just being individuals with some sensitivity and a knack.

Assuming toxicity or other malignant variation is evenly distributed, and at 1% or so of the magically active, that allows for roughly 10 malignant magicians in the sprawl, aided by a few hundred adepts and mediums.

Still not good news. Especially if that includes dual-natured insect-inhabited people ...
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pbangarth
post Nov 16 2019, 06:31 PM
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@Thanee

Hey, Thanee, help me out.

I might be missing something, but it appears to me you paid too much for elfness and Attributes. The Karmagen system asks one to pay nothing for metatype, and you spent 30 karma. And I can't figure out the prices you paid for both regular and special attributes. At 3 X New Level, the only costs you list that make sense to me are the two where you didn't raise the base value and paid nothing.

I think you should have a lot of Karma points to still spend. Am I missing somthing? Did I pay too little for Quick Willie?
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Thanee
post Nov 16 2019, 06:40 PM
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Oy. Seems like you still have the old book there.

There was a pretty extensive errata for the karma generation system.

Let me see, if I can find the list of changes, I think I have them written up somewhere...

Bye
Thanee
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pbangarth
post Nov 16 2019, 06:42 PM
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Oh, shit. I have the PDF dated 2008. How far out of date is the old man?
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Thanee
post Nov 16 2019, 06:42 PM
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Found it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

QUOTE
p.41 Karma Character Generation Table
The Karma Cost for Metatype (shapeshifter type, etc.) should be “As BP*.”
The Karma Cost for improving an attribute by 1 should be “New rating x 5.”

p.42 Step 1: Choose Your Metatype or Other Character Race Option
The first paragraph should read:
“First you must choose metatype or other alternative character concept (i.e. shapeshifter, AI, sasquatch, etc.); there Karma cost for metatype or race is equal to the BP cost for that metatype or option (i.e. if a race costs 10 BP, in Karmagen it costs 10 Karma); the BP cost should be noted as it is important for Step 3. The Metatype Attribute Table (see p. 70 and p.73, SR4) or the relevant table in the section describing the new character races in this book provide your character’s starting and maximum attribute ratings.”

p.42 Step 5: Convert Your Karma to Nuyen
The second line should read:
“A maximum of 100 Karma may be converted to nuyen in this fashion, or 120 if the character has the Born Rich quality (p.96).”

p.43 Focus Bonding Table
The Karma Cost for weapon foci should be “3 x Force.”

p.43-44 Character Creation Example

Marissa wants to make a new character for the latest Shadowrun campaign, something a little different—a sasquatch street druid called Sacnoth. Her gamemaster tells Marissa that they’re using the Karma-based character generation system, and she has 750 Karma with which to create Sacnoth.

First off, the cost of playing a sasquatch is 40 Karma, reducing Marissa’s total down to 690. Marissa purchases the Magician (Druidic tradition) and Mentor Spirit (Oak) positive qualities for 40 Karma, reducing her total to 650. To buy some more points, Marissa takes the SIN (5 BP version, citizen of the UK) and Incantation Geas negative qualities, bringing her Karma total back up to 680. As a sasquatch, Sacnoth begins with the Uneducated negative quality for no Karma.

Now it’s time for buying attributes. The basic cost for a sasquatch character is 40 BP; this allows Marissa to spend up to 455 Karma (one-half of her starting Karma plus twice the BP cost) on Sacnoth’s attributes. Intuition is of prime importance to druids, so Marissa decides that’s the attribute she wants to max out. Finally, she spends another chunk of points to increase her Body to 8—after all, what’s a sasquatch that can’t take a few hits? The total cost of her attribute increases is 280 Karma, bringing her total down to 400.

CODE
Attribute    Value    Karma Cost
Body           8          75
Agility        3          25
Reaction       2          10
Strength       5           0
Charisma       3          25
Intuition      6          75
Logic          3          25
Willpower      4          45
TOTAL                    280


As a sasquatch, Marissa’s character starts out with Magic and Edge attributes of 1 and an Essence of 6 ( for now). Sacnoth’s Initiative is derived from adding Reaction and Intuition together, resulting in 8. Marissa increases both Magic and Edge to 3 by spending 25 Karma each, bringing her total Karma down to 350 .

Now Marissa buys Sacnoth’s skills. Starting off with her maximums, Marissa decides Sacnoth will have two rating 5 skills—Assensing and Astral Combat, critical for a dual-natured sasquatch—one rating 3 skill group, Sorcery, and Enchanting 3. The Conjuring group skills Banishing, Binding, and Summoning she buys individually at rating 4 and takes specialties in each of them. That takes care of Sacnoth’s magical skills, so now Marissa rounds her character out with some basics: First Aid 2, Perception 3, Survival 2, Tracking 2, and Unarmed Combat 2 (Subdual +2).

For knowledge and language skills, Marissa starts out with the Perth-Athabaskans Sign Language as Sacnoth’s Native language, and makes the sasquatch fluent in French Sign Language (Jive+2) at rating 4. To reflect the sasquatch’s background (and mindful of his lack of formal education), Marissa takes Botany 3, Druidic Lore 4, Magic Background 3, Medical Theory 3, Astronomy 3, and Sapient Critters 3.

CODE
Skill                          Karma Cost
Assensing 5                        32
Astral Combat 5                    32
Astronomy 3                         7
Banishing 4 (Plant Spirits +2)     24
Binding 4 (Plant Spirits +2)       24
Botany 3                            7
Druidic Lore 4                     11
Enchanting 3                       14
First Aid 2                         8
French Sign Language 4 (Jive +2)   13
Magic Background 3                  7
Medical Theory 3                    7
Perception 3                       14
Perkins-Athabaskan N                0
Sapient Critters 3                  7
Sorcery Group 3                    35
Summoning 4 (Plant Spirits +2)     24
Survival 2                          8
Tracking 2                          8
Unarmed Combat 2 (Subdual +2)       8
TOTAL                             290


After spending the 290 Karma points on skills, Sacnoth has 60 Karma remaining.

Cashing 5 Karma in for nuyen, Marissa uses the 12,500 nuyen to purchase a basic commlink (Meta Link running Vector Xim with a sim module, Virtual Surround Music, a sasquatch-sized monocle with image link, sasquatch-sized headphones, and sasquatch-sized AR Gloves), a handful of linguasofts (English 2, French 2), a shoulder pouch of food and tools (equivalent to two survival kits), and four months of a Low Lifestyle (a sasquatch’s lifestyle costs 30% more than normal). This brings her down to 55 Karma remaining.

Marissa can select up to 6 spells for Sacnoth at 5 Karma each. She chooses Camouflage, Clean Water, Armor, Heal, Stun Bolt, and Nutrition. After this, Marissa just has 25 Karma left.

For contacts, Marissa chooses as Sasquatch Bartender (Connections 2, Loyalty 4) and a Neo-Celt WizKid Gang Member (Connections 1, Loyalty 2). This comes to a total of 22 Karma.

With 3 Karma left, Marissa goes back and converts 1 of them to nuyen to buy a rating 5 magical lodge (a collection of heavy stones carved with ogham letters), and spends the last two points to specialize her Botany skill for Gathering, giving her Botany 3 (Gathering +2).

With all her Karma points spent, Marissa finishes the character by calculating his starting Condition Monitors, answering the Character Quiz, and rolling for his starting nuyen.


Bye
Thanee
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pbangarth
post Nov 16 2019, 06:42 PM
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...and back to the drawing board, I guess. Thx.
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Thanee
post Nov 16 2019, 06:46 PM
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QUOTE (pbangarth @ Nov 16 2019, 07:42 PM) *
Oh, shit. I have the PDF dated 2008. How far out of date is the old man?


I bought the PDFs for the main rulebooks, my "current" Runner's Companion is from 2012 (it was a free update, I also had the old version, probably the SR4 -> SR4A upgrade).

Bye
Thanee
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pbangarth
post Nov 16 2019, 07:46 PM
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Alright, here is Quick Willie, 750 Karmagen, paid for appropriately. Much more like the BP version, especially since I had to go back to Wired Reflexes from Synaptic Booster. So his Essence sucks again. Good thing he can soak damage well, 'cause healing will be crappy!

I saved the Cerebral Booster though. I'm glad, because after sleeping on it, I think that device will have a huge effect on QW's future. And role playing him as he learns to think will be a blast.

[ Spoiler ]


EDIT: Sooooo ... go to post #75 for the corrected corrected version.
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Thanee
post Nov 16 2019, 08:02 PM
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Since you won't get your Body up to 10, anymore, you could just drop the Exceptional Attribute BOD (40) now, which would almost get you to that Synaptic Accelerator upgrade.

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Thanee
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pbangarth
post Nov 16 2019, 08:10 PM
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Yeah, I thought about that, but I would still be 28,000 nuyen short, and there is the 100 karma limit on gear as well. QW is at 73 and the Synaptic Booster would take him to over 120 karma for gear. I'm NOT touching the Cerebral Booster!

And, hey, you never know when some magician might come along to bump his BOD to 15!
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Thanee
post Nov 16 2019, 08:45 PM
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Two more small things... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

QUOTE
Ork [30] [Karma cost listed in square brackets]
Special Attributes [60]


Ork is 20, not 30.

And, I think, your total for Special Attributes is a leftover from before and should be 25 now.

Bye
Thanee
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pbangarth
post Nov 16 2019, 10:16 PM
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I used to be good at this shit. Honest.

The 60 is a typo, and I counted it as 25 while working it out on paper. Missed the Ork as 20 thing though. So, the added 10 karma, plus 40 for dropping the Exceptional attribute would get him to within a few karma points of the money needed to buy synaptic boosters, but there is still the 100 karma point limit on gear. I'm sticking with the gear as is (for now).

But, maybe Gearhead(Suzuki Mirage) (at 10 karma) would be cool. That is QW all the way. That leaves 40 karma to go. I think I will beef up some rigger aspects. Say, after the LOG bump, he realizes that he should have some drone functionality.

Yeah, more work.
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Mulcarn
post Nov 16 2019, 10:39 PM
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QUOTE (Koekepan @ Nov 16 2019, 12:23 PM) *
Interesting point.

So let's see. Just taking population proportions from today, that would peg the greater Seattle conurbation at roughly 3 million (meta)human souls. However, given concentration as a result of the upheavals in the region, we could bump that up to maybe 4 million (honestly, a lot of the region is pretty thinly populated anyway).

One percent of that, including everybody down to the barista who can talk to the spirit of soykaf and nothing else, is 40,000. Of those, a much smaller proportion would be full mages. At a wild guess (Mulcarn's campaign depending, of course) there are 1,000 or fewer full magicians in Seattle, with many of the remaining 39,000 just being individuals with some sensitivity and a knack.

Assuming toxicity or other malignant variation is evenly distributed, and at 1% or so of the magically active, that allows for roughly 10 malignant magicians in the sprawl, aided by a few hundred adepts and mediums.

Still not good news. Especially if that includes dual-natured insect-inhabited people ...


When I crunched the numbers I came to an average of 450 practitioners of dark magic living in Seattle, using roughly the same method you used above. About 10% of them are full magicians. With the rest being either adepts or aspected. I used the same formula for the uncorrupted, coming in to about 3000-4000 full magicians with the rest being adepts or aspected magicians.

Also, those numbers don't take into account wild or free dark spirits.
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Mulcarn
post Nov 16 2019, 10:56 PM
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QUOTE (Thanee @ Nov 16 2019, 02:03 AM) *
Yeah, that wasn't easy. I think, she came out pretty well-rounded. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I did lower the attributes a bit farther down than I wanted, but you have to save those points somewhere...


Speaking of which... are the Forms okay? Especially the vehicle-forms: "motorcycle" (which, I guess, is fine) and "roadster" (was thinking something of the size of an MX-5 here; not sure whether that is too much)?


So, start in two weeks, then? Cool! That should give me enough time to get her background written up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bye
Thanee


RAW it's fine, but I think she has too many different forms. Try to narrow it down to two. One is her natural, true form and the other is a simulacrum of whatever (cat, motorcycle, mount, toaster, etc) you want.
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pbangarth
post Nov 16 2019, 11:25 PM
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Alright, here we go again for Quick Willie in Karmagen. Sorry for all the rewrites.

Vignette of early Quick Willie
[ Spoiler ]


Stats

[ Spoiler ]


50 Questions
[ Spoiler ]


EDIT: updated 27 Nov 2019
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