Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. The sort of people that go out of their way to jump through Uncle Sam's hoops in order to be allowed to concealed carry are often in the "don't" category. It's certainly true that there are those who have a "I carry for my safety and that of my family" mindset, but there are a great number of us that instead have the "all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" mindset, which results in quite a bit more gunplay, annually.

I can think of times random students ran to get guns to stop a college school shooting, times a random old man in a grocery store opened fire to stop a crazy man from stabbing his wife to death, times a random small business owner got his gun from his car to stop a disgruntled employee (from another store) from stabbing someone to death, and plenty of other cases.

Yes, in each of those cases a great number of people either did nothing (out of fear or shock) or outright ran away from the violence that was disrupting their everyday life. But all it takes is one person (preferably with a gun) to run towards the violence, instead, to really ruin a bad guy's day. And in Shadowrun, sometimes the "bad guy" is the PC.

Heck, even Food Fight specifically pointed out several of that Stuffer Shack's patrons were armed and willing to go down fighting.

I'm a big fan of the Hitman games, so I'll try to give you a very genuine answer.

The games aren't too strong on character development. I think that the 47 portrayed in the movie was definitely banging around in the game designers' heads, especially considering the events portrayed in the beginning of Hitman 2 and the character background as written up in official materials, but the game lets you play either as the ultimate ghostly mostly nonviolent stealth assassin or simply go in Rambo style and massacre everyone. Up until Blood Money it was often easier to play Rambo style and doing the complicated and precise thing with disguises and zero collateral damage was more a matter of doing it because 1.) you preferred that style of gameplay and 2.) the best features of the game engine were set up to facilitate that. But in terms of just completing the mission either approach could work.

So, the movie could be very close to the games, if you play like 47 from the movie. On the other hand you might play 47 like he's Rambo and then that all goes in the crapper.


I think that the Hitman Trilogy is definitely worth picking up, especially if you can do so at discount. The first Hitman game was revolutionary and awesome for its time but a friend of mine has described it as "flawed genius"; nowadays it pretty much is more fun to play the later games where the concept is better implemented.

I should emphasize that Hitman is really a thinking man's game. Although there is capacity for big shootouts, the game spends more of its resources on disguise, stealth, and interesting level design which interacts more with a stealthy approach to play. Hitman would be a mediocre shooter, but what's unique about the Hitman franchise is the very well-developed stealth and infiltration aspects, and I find that I need to think a great deal about each level in order to come up with an effective plan of action along those lines. Having said that, I should point out that there are multiple ways to complete each level. Each level isn't just like a giant puzzle where you need to find the single "right" answer. It's more like each level gives you certain tools in terms of environment and NPCs and you use the tools as you see fit to try and accomplish the objectives.

Hitman trilogy contains Silent Assassin (2), Contracts (3), and Blood Money (4). Silent Assassin and Contracts both share the same engine. I had a lot of fun with the engine playing Silent Assassin closer to when it first came out, and although certain aspects of the gameplay are difficult (guards see through your disguise and open fire on you a bit more readily than you'd expect in real life) once I got used to it I found the levels to be very satisfying and well thought out.

Blood Money seems to use a more advanced engine and I think it's absolute poetry. I am finding peoples' reactions to you are much more in line with what I'd expect them to be in reality. I think the weapons behave more realistically in Blood Money than in the earlier games, and are better balanced. There's a lot of features added that resolve some silly issues that arose in the earlier Hitman games. For example, in Silent Assassin you could choose to take a rifle with you on a mission, but you appeared in the level (always concealed at first) holding the rifle and social camoflague was almost impossible while holding the rifle. However, in Blood Money, if you take your W2000 sniper rifle with you on a mission 47 has the genius never-heard-of-idea to put the damn rifle in a case instead of waving it around in his hands on the street. So now it's possible to actually take a rifle into the level while concealing it as any normal human being would think to conceal it in public.

So I think that the Hitman games are excellent. I've never had a more satisfying stealth experience in a video game than with Blood Money. Should you get Hitman Trilogy I'd actually recommend playing the games in order, from Silent Assassin to Contracts to Blood Money. This would let you appreciate the game the most. While my honest opinion is that Silent Assassin is a wonderful game, I expect it would be something of a let-down to go from Blood Money to Silent Assassin, since that would just serve to highlight all the problems that were fixed in Blood Money but not in Silent Assassin.

Well, that was pretty comprehensive. Thanks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

As someone who lives in Texas, I find this thread somewhat humerous because it strikes to a certain amount of truth, yet not even close to the truth that the visual many have of the state and it's inhabitants.

Texas passed a concealed carry law several years ago with the push for passing of the legislation coming after a crazed gunman ran his vehicle through the front window of a Luby's restaurant and proceeded to walk through executing all he could find. Many witnesses stated at the time that if they had been armed, they would have been able to save lives. Now, many Texans do have the ability to get licensed to carry concealed pistols, but the majority that I know do not (or have the license, but only carry when they feel the need). Texas does have a law allowing the transportation of loaded longarms in vehicles, but this is mainly due to the size of the state. While East/Central Texas contains all of the large urban areas, most of West Texas/Panhandle is still relatively sparse with many dangerous animals around such as snakes, mountain lions, and coyotes. Farmers and Ranchers were given permission to carry their rifles and shotguns to protect themselves and their livestock from such predators. But, a firearms law passed by the state affects all of the state, not just small sections of it.

Where does this fit in with the original post? Basically, while it may be legal for civilians to carry firearms and weapons, it isn't neessarily true that it is a common occurance. Though in a game like SR, I think the occurance would be much higher than in real life, and runners should act accordingly.

As for the Joe Horn case, that is something that is still being debated and will be decided by the Grand Jury. Being from Houston, I get to hear a great deal about this case, and many in the area have formed their own opinions. Some are calling him a hero for defending his neighbors property, others a cold-blooded killer. A minority consider him a racist and say that the entire thing was a conspiracy (yeah, Mr. Horn asked the two men to rob the house as he sat in waiting for them... give me a break). Personally, I am just waiting to see what the result of the Grand Jury will be. No matter what, I believe that there will be a change in Texas law due to this incident.

As a side note concerning Texas, I was told of a study done by the U.S. Army in the 80's in which a communist invasion of the United States was proposed, with troops coming up from Central America/Cuba and using Galveston Island as an invasion point. The study was to determine how far the Communist forces, consisting of at least one brigade of mobilized infantry and tank units, would be able to make it into Texas before U.S. military forces would be able to stop them. The answer, according to the study, was that the Communist forces would only make it to the half way point between Galveston and Houston (approx. 20 miles) due to swampy terrain and the civilian populations access to high powered firearms and explosives. As a fifteen or sixteen year-old teenager, I found that study to be hillarious back then, now I find it somewhat sobering.

Blood Money is very much worth playing, best in the series imo. Haven't had any getting stuck in stuff trouble personally, and I love how there are multiple ways to finish the level, quiet or loud. The opera house is pure genius.

The opera house is probably my favorite.

See, most of what I do in my life is actually fueled by my sense of irony. The only music I take seriously and actually like is classical opera. I first heard "The Magic Flute" when I was in 4th grade and was totally overwhelmed and electrified. It's like that quote from "Pretty Woman" about how some people hear opera and are immediately captivated and those people are the true opera lovers.

So I practically had some kind of orgiastic meltdown when I got to listen to Tosca in a meta way while playing a game. I think I enjoyed standing around waiting for things to happen while listening to Tosca way too much.

That particular scene from Tosca has always been one of my favorites. Back when I was in 5th grade I had a CD, "Opera To Die For", which was a compilation of all sorts of dramatic death scenes from opera. Of course, it had the Tosca scene, and it was one of my favorites. I loved the orchestral flare after Tosca throws herself off the tower. Man, what a pump up!

New York gun laws are basically the same as Jersey, to the best of my knowledge; registration of anything concealed carry. Longguns are basically unrestricted (except for automatics, and the like). Not sure about handguns you want to use for non-concealed carry, though. My dad does business in both states, and has a concealed carry permit (jewelry business, comes with the territory, much to chagrin of my mother), although he said he wouldn't even bother trying to get one in the City. From what he told me, you essentially have to have written authorization from the Police Commissioner / the Commissioner's office. That said, I've heard that if you ever get into an incident and identify it to an officer (even if it didn't involve the firearm), they'd rather just bring you to the station until they can work everything out rather then just turn you lose on the spot. Gives a new incentive to get a tazer, eh?

For the Sixth World, I see private firearm ownership as minimal in the AAA-rated security zones, and increasing exponentially up to the Z-zones. People in corporate farms are probably either under private protection, or so blinded by their affluent lives that they don't feel they need one. Plus, I doubt Renraku wants you living on their property with Manhunter when they have a perfectly functional corporate army. Places like the devastated parts of LA are probably closer to a warzone then anything else..

Some corps may activey advertise carrying (and of course, buying!) guns, such as Ares. Some countries may still have mandatory military service, so the population may actually be trained in the use of longarms. And it could be that by 2070, Switzerland still has its citizen soldiers stash their military issue assault rifles at home. Imagine pulling a run there or in some Ares gated community, where just about every second (male in some cases) citizen has access to and military training with an assault rifle at home. A runner team mistaken - or framed as - an attacking gang could end up in a world of hurt in some neighborhoods.

Generally, I run it so most civilians seek cover, and don't play hero, even if armed, but the closer to teenagers one NPC is, and the more testosterone he has, the bigger the odds he'll want some piece of the action.

Also one can not discount the various crowd scenes that seems to show "kind-of sort-of but not really" concealed carry as being rather common in the Sixth World, now whether or not it is legal or simply something that Lone Star uses to shake down an occasional bribe or two is debatable.
"

I'm thinking back to the scene in Predator 2... A bunch of gangers decide to roll a suit on a train, but he pulls a gun (light pistol) from his briefcase and being trying to threaten them. The gang boss pulls out this hand cannon (ruger super warhawk-esque) and makes some, I'm baddasser than you type comment. And then the gangers notice that everyone else on the train car is pulling out their own guns. And... before bullet start flying, the predator attacks, slaughtering everyone on board.

That's kind of how I feel about near future settings were laws are frequently bent. Anyone might be packing heat. And all it takes is one of them getting ticked off enough about something to take action. After all, popular media is full of example of people taking the law into their own hands, right? Imagine what it'd be like 60 years in the future.

The extreme example of this is a "motivational poster" for depicting a bunch of school kids on a bus pulling pistols. It says something like, "SHADOWRUN Yeah, its like that."

I've visited 2 non-chain gun shops in the Las Vegas area and in both of them all the staff were wearing pistols, so good point re Ares.

Per some crime reports I've seen, in California you have some gun stores gun where the staff are not armed per company policy. It's the most insane idea I've ever heard of....

There are some states in the US that have open carry laws. In Wyoming, for example, you need a permit to carry a concealed pistol, but it if you wear one on your hip and avoid banks, federal buildings and schools you are good to go (theoretically). While it is not a frequent occurrence, its not entirely unusual to see guys carrying openly, especially during hunting season (because you never know when you might need a Glock 37 to finish of your elk... or something...).

I'm sure there are cultures/societies in SR that would have similar views.

I've always been under the impression that in Shadowrun Seattle well over half the population was armed with a weapon of some sort. If you have access to the Neoanarchists Guide to Real Life, read the section with the designer firearms, you will certainly get the impression that they are literally a must have like your smog filtering respirator. Whether or not that means these people would spontaneously join a gun-fight or not is really up to the GM, but it's certainly a curveball you can throw your players to liven up your game. My advice is don't make it a consistent element, but use it just often enough that it's something that the players need to be aware of when planning and account for during legwork.

Actually the last I checked open carry was legal in a bank but not a church (Without written consent from the minister.), and with a conceal carry permit there are ~13 types of buildings you are not allowed to enter with a firearm, a courthouse is legal, but a courtroom isn't for example.

But yeah, I figure that the Sixth World and Cyberpunk in general isn't really the future per say, but rather the worst of the past wrapped up with the shiny bow of technology.

Shadowrunners are supposed to be elite and generally elite in combat specifically. If your sniper holes himself up in a tower for an hour he is going to take some serious heat until he goes down. Now a hit where people move in an just lay waste to everything I have a feeling that anyone who is worth their weight in salt would just run, and those that don't would also probably run. I mean if there is about to be a gang fight going down with multiple people on both sides carrying firearms the sensible thing is to bug out.

Now you go and pull some shit in a place where people are invested in the area then it is a little bit different. If you assignment is to destroy the only water supply in town you might receive more opposition then gunning down some gang members. Still anyone with training seeing what an SR team could do would probably have the sense to stay well alone. I mean a grunt seeing a black ops in action (6 dice vs like 12-15) would know that if he didn't drop him almost instantly his life would be a pretty short one.

To which state are you referring? It varies quite a bit.

At least in current day Seattle, open carry is effectively illegal (technically it's at police discretion, but it's considered threatening) but concealed carry is licensed and common. Armed bystanders intervening in dangerous situations is not unheard of, though it tends to be exagerated.

Wyoming

The amusing part is trying to write up Agent 47 as an NPC but sticking to the rules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Ravor- As far as banks go, that might be true in theory, but in practice you'd have to be pretty dumb to open carry into a bank... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

Also, I'm not sure if the limitations for open carry are exactly the same as for concealed carry. I looked through the state laws again and the limitations on CC are pretty clear (interesting point on the courtroom btw) but its hard to find anything explicit about OC.

Out of curiosity, why the interest in Wyoming gun laws?

There is no problem with openly carrying in a bank. The problem comes from drawing in a bank, which is really something that you shouldn't do.

Brandishing aside...

What you can do legally and what you can do socially are different. People get nervous when they see a gun on anyone that isn't in uniform. They don't tend to ask whether or not you have a permit or what you intend to do. They just call the police.

The last thing you want is for some jumpy bank teller to trigger the silent alarm because you like to walk around like a wild west gunslinger. Its just a bad idea...

If you're concerned about people getting nervous because you're openly carrying but aren't wearing a uniform then there is a simple solution to that. Very simple indeed.

I'm a Wyoming native. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)